Big Name Porting Shops Ii
02-19-2004, 09:02 AM
#62
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: My BIG ol TURBO-DIESEL
Posts: 5,181
Like I stated at the beginning of this thread, I was not attacking Rob personally, Just giving my observations of my 120 HP max Pineapple Engine. It is on its way back to PR after I cracked MY engine open to see what was wrong.
02-19-2004, 10:29 PM
#63
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 13
i'm not getting defensive here, i was exagerating a point that when you do something by hand it won't be perfect,that is good that the engine is on the way back that is what shoud happen,but my question was not answered.did you pay forall of the motors that you had in your posession,because ifyoudidnot then you have alot of moneyin newparts that are not yours,so ican see that nothingwouldbe resolved untilyousend the core the first engine that died back,that is how a warranty works,judge i was not implying anything against you,and i think it's cool that you are on the forum,cause it is good to see that builders are doing good work.and i know Rob does better work than what is shown here.just curious to when these engines were built.anyway just because something looks different that what you think it should look like,mabye there is more to it than looks,remember the old saying,don''t judge a book by its cover,i really wish we could talk on the phone ,i'm such a slow typist ,i've been typing for 20 min.i have alot more to say but it's been a long day.judge i think your work is top notch,mabye i'll se you a seven stcok 7 with my SP.
02-20-2004, 12:25 AM
#64
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 18
The reason the motor looks old is because its been sitting since Dec. 2002. I didn't take it apart until Jan. 2004. Motor No. 3 ran for 30 minutes in March 2003, open your eyes and look at the signs of blow-by from the side seals. I put the red plugs back in both motors so they would be sitting wide open in the humid climate I live in.
You buddy Rob admitted to me in March 2003 that he did not actually oversee the engines being built.
What's your excuse to motor no. 1 that never started because coolant poured straight out the exhuast?
Back in March 2003 Rob volunteered a refund but would not put it in writing even when I sent a certified letter stating "refund contingent upon tear down and inspection". All I got back was a letter from Rob a month later with 3 barely legible sentences and a copy of a check for about 25% of what he owes and no mention of refunding the good core I lost in this.
Funny how the half dozen or so 1st gen motors I've installed over the last 15 years all ran right, the half dozen other 3rd gen motors I've installed in recent years run right except other ones from Rob (2 out of 6 Pineapples installed here run right, great odds huh), and the motor I got from RP after this b.s. runs right with over 10,000 miles on it now.
Jack
You buddy Rob admitted to me in March 2003 that he did not actually oversee the engines being built.
What's your excuse to motor no. 1 that never started because coolant poured straight out the exhuast?
Back in March 2003 Rob volunteered a refund but would not put it in writing even when I sent a certified letter stating "refund contingent upon tear down and inspection". All I got back was a letter from Rob a month later with 3 barely legible sentences and a copy of a check for about 25% of what he owes and no mention of refunding the good core I lost in this.
Funny how the half dozen or so 1st gen motors I've installed over the last 15 years all ran right, the half dozen other 3rd gen motors I've installed in recent years run right except other ones from Rob (2 out of 6 Pineapples installed here run right, great odds huh), and the motor I got from RP after this b.s. runs right with over 10,000 miles on it now.
Jack
02-20-2004, 01:34 AM
#65
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 13
mylast reply was just that,when was the engine built,yes he said the first one was an error,but he also said that he built you another engine,but the shipper did'n get the first one back,so now you have 2 for the price of one,youstill have not answered my question,how many have youpaid for,if only one then you have alot of new parts that are not yours,i wouldn't give you any money back either until i got the first motor back.this is gettin pretty out of hand here,how many of you guys bash Atkins,or hayse,order a street motor from one of them and see what you get.or mabye a street motor from pettit,open em up see what they look like inside. i've seen some really bad stuff from all of the above.in fact i'll post some of the stuff i've encountered just for comparison in a day or so.
02-20-2004, 01:39 AM
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,467
It seems unjust to post information on a subject before the final decisions and judgements have been made. Badmouthing pertaining to business dealings w/o BOTH arguments, documentation, etc. basically establishing a level of credibility, not to leave out CLOSURE between both parties should be attained BEFORE all this B.S. With that said...allow me to retort
Have you ever heard the saying; **** me once, shame on you, **** me twice, shame on me for giving you a second chance to **** me? Some of you have gone back third and fourth times wtf?
It would seem that if you all were so in the right about the dealings with the builder that a lawsuit/court decision would be the a slam dunk, and the builder would have to make good on all of the problems by court order, However, There have been none, why?, probably because we are only getting half the story.
I would imagine what isn't being shared here is the fact that, an engine had extra oil cooler and lines added to it and the engine didn't have enough oil to begin with and wasn't primed properly before starting,
OR there was an issue w/ an engine but when asked to ship it back to the builder for inspection the customer refused.
Why wouldn't you send a faulty engine w/ a warranty back UNLESS you had something to hide??
maybe some goods prior to the engine build were paid for w/ a credit card that had no credit left, so before the engine issue was resolved there needed to be payment received from the previous job/(s)
Maybe a plate, that already had a number of cycles on it, and was lapped properly, warped due to unknown circumstances, cryo or not stranger things have happened...
ya' know, as I have said before, there is no excuse for poor quality/workmanship. Part of being human is making mistakes and learning from them. We have all been on the giving AND receiving end of the mold covered **** sickle and had to take a giant bite. The reality of the situation is credibility is earned, as well as trust, respect and honor, and with the exception of a select few, none of these qualities are displayed in this thread, In other words bring your A game to the ******* table, don't throw out pieces of the truth intertwined w/ a sugar coated version of the story to portray yourselves as the innocent victims, Someone whom has 20+ years of experience in the field and a formidable reputation as a good builder didn't get there by running a line of **** and ******* people out of their money. When a problem occurs, if you call someone a crook right out of the gate, of course they will be on the defensive from that point on, its human nature...
Have you ever heard the saying; **** me once, shame on you, **** me twice, shame on me for giving you a second chance to **** me? Some of you have gone back third and fourth times wtf?
It would seem that if you all were so in the right about the dealings with the builder that a lawsuit/court decision would be the a slam dunk, and the builder would have to make good on all of the problems by court order, However, There have been none, why?, probably because we are only getting half the story.
I would imagine what isn't being shared here is the fact that, an engine had extra oil cooler and lines added to it and the engine didn't have enough oil to begin with and wasn't primed properly before starting,
OR there was an issue w/ an engine but when asked to ship it back to the builder for inspection the customer refused.
Why wouldn't you send a faulty engine w/ a warranty back UNLESS you had something to hide??
maybe some goods prior to the engine build were paid for w/ a credit card that had no credit left, so before the engine issue was resolved there needed to be payment received from the previous job/(s)
Maybe a plate, that already had a number of cycles on it, and was lapped properly, warped due to unknown circumstances, cryo or not stranger things have happened...
ya' know, as I have said before, there is no excuse for poor quality/workmanship. Part of being human is making mistakes and learning from them. We have all been on the giving AND receiving end of the mold covered **** sickle and had to take a giant bite. The reality of the situation is credibility is earned, as well as trust, respect and honor, and with the exception of a select few, none of these qualities are displayed in this thread, In other words bring your A game to the ******* table, don't throw out pieces of the truth intertwined w/ a sugar coated version of the story to portray yourselves as the innocent victims, Someone whom has 20+ years of experience in the field and a formidable reputation as a good builder didn't get there by running a line of **** and ******* people out of their money. When a problem occurs, if you call someone a crook right out of the gate, of course they will be on the defensive from that point on, its human nature...
02-20-2004, 02:58 AM
#67
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 18
I wanted to return the motors and get a refund but after all the run around I wanted it in writing before sending the motors back with another empty promise to resolve the issue. Rob was covered because the agreement I sent him to sign said refund contingent upon tear down and inspection plus stating what my out of pocket cost were including a core engine. If Rob didn't like the agreement I sent he had my phone number with anser machine, my e-mail, and address, he could have communicated and resolved the issue - by this point I was sicking the run around. I certainly don't think its too much to ask. After all Rob took the time to answer my e-mails concerning the purchase so I had it in writing what would be included with the rebuild.
As to why no legal action, I trust lawyers about as much as engine builders. Yes, I could spend more money and get a judgement but still never collect a dime. Look at Peter Farrel and Monsen. Monsen is out of pocket in the six figures with a judgement and an appeal victory. Hell, even having it in writing like I wanted wouldn't mean anything but at that point I hadn't seen the inside of these engines to know just how bad the run around was. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on, hoping to learn from your mistakes.
Yes I paid for one motor. I paid for what was supposed to be a professionally built engine that STARTS and RUNS properly but thats not what's I wasted my time installing over and over again. Its not what you see in those pictures. You know what I else I paid for, approximately 60 hours R&R'ing three engines, time spent calling to hear Rob's porting or getting a busy signal, time spent sending unanswered e-mails, time spent droping off and picking up motors at the shippper, etc., etc.
I have a lot better things to do than try to put up pictures of phony engines saying they are from Pineapple. The only reason I waited to tear the motors down is I wanted to have them broken down in front of a known rotary engine builder who would see stuff right away that I might miss or take longer to find. That builder was Steve Kan from Gotham Racing when he came down here for a tuning session.
In the end, I paid for another motor but I got my money's worth this time. Running very strong with a little over 11,000 miles. The motor I got from RP was run on a bench for 6 hours and compressed tested at higher than stock levels (9.1 to 9.3). Chris uses a flow bench to insure his ports are matched. He bevels his exhaust ports like Ito says and makes transition for side seals. RP is where I would have gotten a motor in the first place since I know them personally and can drive 8 hours to see them if there's a problem but they weren't doing mail order engines at the time.
Jack
As to why no legal action, I trust lawyers about as much as engine builders. Yes, I could spend more money and get a judgement but still never collect a dime. Look at Peter Farrel and Monsen. Monsen is out of pocket in the six figures with a judgement and an appeal victory. Hell, even having it in writing like I wanted wouldn't mean anything but at that point I hadn't seen the inside of these engines to know just how bad the run around was. Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on, hoping to learn from your mistakes.
Yes I paid for one motor. I paid for what was supposed to be a professionally built engine that STARTS and RUNS properly but thats not what's I wasted my time installing over and over again. Its not what you see in those pictures. You know what I else I paid for, approximately 60 hours R&R'ing three engines, time spent calling to hear Rob's porting or getting a busy signal, time spent sending unanswered e-mails, time spent droping off and picking up motors at the shippper, etc., etc.
I have a lot better things to do than try to put up pictures of phony engines saying they are from Pineapple. The only reason I waited to tear the motors down is I wanted to have them broken down in front of a known rotary engine builder who would see stuff right away that I might miss or take longer to find. That builder was Steve Kan from Gotham Racing when he came down here for a tuning session.
In the end, I paid for another motor but I got my money's worth this time. Running very strong with a little over 11,000 miles. The motor I got from RP was run on a bench for 6 hours and compressed tested at higher than stock levels (9.1 to 9.3). Chris uses a flow bench to insure his ports are matched. He bevels his exhaust ports like Ito says and makes transition for side seals. RP is where I would have gotten a motor in the first place since I know them personally and can drive 8 hours to see them if there's a problem but they weren't doing mail order engines at the time.
Jack
02-20-2004, 03:04 AM
#68
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 18
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...hreadid=260953
Check out the post from CYM TKT, another Pineapple customer. I talked to him back last May or so but never heard anymore. It seems most of these engines were built around srping to summer of 2002.
Jack
Check out the post from CYM TKT, another Pineapple customer. I talked to him back last May or so but never heard anymore. It seems most of these engines were built around srping to summer of 2002.
Jack
03-11-2004, 05:30 PM
#69
Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by Trout' date='Feb 20 2004, 01:04 AM
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...hreadid=260953
Check out the post from CYM TKT, another Pineapple customer. I talked to him back last May or so but never heard anymore. It seems most of these engines were built around srping to summer of 2002.
Jack
Check out the post from CYM TKT, another Pineapple customer. I talked to him back last May or so but never heard anymore. It seems most of these engines were built around srping to summer of 2002.
Jack
Thanks.
03-11-2004, 06:28 PM
#70
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: My BIG ol TURBO-DIESEL
Posts: 5,181
12Aport: My engine is back at Rob's right now. we will see. I have a completely different beast coming back to me. I am sure Rob wants to get these "bad apples" from the spring of 2002 taken care of. The proof will be in the dyno!. John