Big Name Porting Shops Ii
03-12-2004, 11:13 PM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,089
i like other ppl here have been waiting to hear the other side of some of these stories. I'm not taking any sides here, and have no affiliation to PR or the customers listed here. I'm just posting this in the spirit of fairness, as i believe everyone should have an opportunity to defend themselvs.
heres the link.
pinapple defense
for the lazy ppl....
"To: Participants of this forum
From: Rob Golden, Owner Pineapple Racing
Date: March 12, 2004
Dear Fellow Rotary Car Enthusiasts,
It has come to my attention that Mr. Brian Thompson and/or Mr. Keith Thompson have been presenting inaccurate information to you about problems they encountered with an engine rebuilt by my company. It has been my policy to not publicly address issues such as this because I feel they should be handled with private customer communications. I am reluctant to address these situations publicly because it is difficult to do without degrading someone's reputation or image. However, since the Thompsons have been presenting inaccurate information detrimental to Pineapple Racing's reputation and image, and only presenting part of the situation as well as untruths, I believe an exception in this case is appropriate.
I would like you to remember that there is more than one side to any story. I am sharing a copy of a letter sent to Mr. Keith Thompson by registered mail in December 2003 indicating my position regarding the damage that occurred to Mr. Thompson's engine. The information presented in the letter that follows has not been challenged by the Thompsons in writing nor verbally as of the date of this posting. Please read it as it summarizes "my side of the story" as of December 5th, 2003.
Thank you for considering this additional information as you develop perceptions and opinions of this unfortunate situation.
Rob Golden, Owner, Pineapple Racing
================================================== ========
12-5-03
Mr. Keith Thompson,
Based on your conversation with Joel, Pineapple Racing Shop Manager, on Tuesday evening, 12-2-03, it is our impression that your position is that it is our responsibility to repair the damaged engine even though our tear down failure analysis indicated that the engine damage was not a result of defective parts or workmanship. In fact, during the engine tear-down inspection, during which Brian Thompson was present, we found no indication that the oiling system, nor the bearings, were defective. Brian said the car seized up while being driven. Brian further stated that the engine had good oil pressure and that the oil level was correct at the time it seized. During the early stages of this project, and several times after encountering problems, Brian said he had several other engines for us to rebuild. This would indicate a longer term business arrangement was his intent. We were going to take care of this as a good will gesture towards a longer term business relationship with Brian. From Joel's conversation with you on Tuesday, 12-2-03, it appears that the intention of a longer term business relationship never existed. Since Brian's repeated statements of additional business weren't accurate, that makes other statements by Brian suspect as well.
Brian had mentioned having a difficult time starting the engine. Brian thought this was because fuel injector/computer related problems were causing a tremendous amount of engine cranking without the engine starting. Brian also mentioned he installed two new oil coolers and new oil lines. The oil lines he added he said have two extra feet of line each to increase the oil capacity of the system. We believe the additional oil line length and the new oil coolers created a situation where the oil pump did not prime during the cranking. Brian didn't mention checking for oil pressure during cranking. Right after start-up Brain said he heard some knocking noise from engine/transmission area. Per our policy, if there is a doubt or question about the engine, call us. And Brain did not contact us. Our conclusion from our failure analysis and the information Brian provided is that the damage to the engine happened at start-up because of improper engine start-up procedures. And that the knocking noise Brian heard was the rear rotor hitting the side plates from extreme bearing clearances caused by improper engine start-up procedures resulting in a non-primed oiling system. No other engine built using bearings from that same bearing production run experienced problems. That eliminates the possibility of a defective bearing being installed and producing this damage. If the bearing had been defective, it would not have lasted the 1200 miles that it did. Since the engine seized while being driven with good oil pressure, and that during the tear down inspection there were no signs of extreme bearing failure, this indicates a major short term oil pressure loss. The tear down and testing of the components in front of Brian showed no defects. It was disappointing that you did not want us to send out components for independent inspection. We believe this would support our conclusion. Further investigation of our own with other rotary engine professionals has reinforced our position that the damage was not caused by defective parts or workmanship.
In addition, the obnoxious and aggressive style of communication you used in speaking with Chris, Pineapple Racing employee, over the telephone on 12-4-03 is not acceptable. I will not participate in further conversations where obnoxious and aggressive communication is presented and I am instructing my team here at Pineapple Racing to do the same. If you choose to contact us treating myself, and my team with respect and using a reasonable style of communication, we will continue to discuss this with you. Otherwise, communication will be strictly limited to the written word.
Rob Golden, Owner
Pineapple Racing"
heres the link.
pinapple defense
for the lazy ppl....
"To: Participants of this forum
From: Rob Golden, Owner Pineapple Racing
Date: March 12, 2004
Dear Fellow Rotary Car Enthusiasts,
It has come to my attention that Mr. Brian Thompson and/or Mr. Keith Thompson have been presenting inaccurate information to you about problems they encountered with an engine rebuilt by my company. It has been my policy to not publicly address issues such as this because I feel they should be handled with private customer communications. I am reluctant to address these situations publicly because it is difficult to do without degrading someone's reputation or image. However, since the Thompsons have been presenting inaccurate information detrimental to Pineapple Racing's reputation and image, and only presenting part of the situation as well as untruths, I believe an exception in this case is appropriate.
I would like you to remember that there is more than one side to any story. I am sharing a copy of a letter sent to Mr. Keith Thompson by registered mail in December 2003 indicating my position regarding the damage that occurred to Mr. Thompson's engine. The information presented in the letter that follows has not been challenged by the Thompsons in writing nor verbally as of the date of this posting. Please read it as it summarizes "my side of the story" as of December 5th, 2003.
Thank you for considering this additional information as you develop perceptions and opinions of this unfortunate situation.
Rob Golden, Owner, Pineapple Racing
================================================== ========
12-5-03
Mr. Keith Thompson,
Based on your conversation with Joel, Pineapple Racing Shop Manager, on Tuesday evening, 12-2-03, it is our impression that your position is that it is our responsibility to repair the damaged engine even though our tear down failure analysis indicated that the engine damage was not a result of defective parts or workmanship. In fact, during the engine tear-down inspection, during which Brian Thompson was present, we found no indication that the oiling system, nor the bearings, were defective. Brian said the car seized up while being driven. Brian further stated that the engine had good oil pressure and that the oil level was correct at the time it seized. During the early stages of this project, and several times after encountering problems, Brian said he had several other engines for us to rebuild. This would indicate a longer term business arrangement was his intent. We were going to take care of this as a good will gesture towards a longer term business relationship with Brian. From Joel's conversation with you on Tuesday, 12-2-03, it appears that the intention of a longer term business relationship never existed. Since Brian's repeated statements of additional business weren't accurate, that makes other statements by Brian suspect as well.
Brian had mentioned having a difficult time starting the engine. Brian thought this was because fuel injector/computer related problems were causing a tremendous amount of engine cranking without the engine starting. Brian also mentioned he installed two new oil coolers and new oil lines. The oil lines he added he said have two extra feet of line each to increase the oil capacity of the system. We believe the additional oil line length and the new oil coolers created a situation where the oil pump did not prime during the cranking. Brian didn't mention checking for oil pressure during cranking. Right after start-up Brain said he heard some knocking noise from engine/transmission area. Per our policy, if there is a doubt or question about the engine, call us. And Brain did not contact us. Our conclusion from our failure analysis and the information Brian provided is that the damage to the engine happened at start-up because of improper engine start-up procedures. And that the knocking noise Brian heard was the rear rotor hitting the side plates from extreme bearing clearances caused by improper engine start-up procedures resulting in a non-primed oiling system. No other engine built using bearings from that same bearing production run experienced problems. That eliminates the possibility of a defective bearing being installed and producing this damage. If the bearing had been defective, it would not have lasted the 1200 miles that it did. Since the engine seized while being driven with good oil pressure, and that during the tear down inspection there were no signs of extreme bearing failure, this indicates a major short term oil pressure loss. The tear down and testing of the components in front of Brian showed no defects. It was disappointing that you did not want us to send out components for independent inspection. We believe this would support our conclusion. Further investigation of our own with other rotary engine professionals has reinforced our position that the damage was not caused by defective parts or workmanship.
In addition, the obnoxious and aggressive style of communication you used in speaking with Chris, Pineapple Racing employee, over the telephone on 12-4-03 is not acceptable. I will not participate in further conversations where obnoxious and aggressive communication is presented and I am instructing my team here at Pineapple Racing to do the same. If you choose to contact us treating myself, and my team with respect and using a reasonable style of communication, we will continue to discuss this with you. Otherwise, communication will be strictly limited to the written word.
Rob Golden, Owner
Pineapple Racing"
03-12-2004, 11:27 PM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,467
Originally Posted by SPEED_NYC' date='Mar 12 2004, 09:13 PM
i like other ppl here have been waiting to hear the other side of some of these stories. I'm not taking any sides here, and have no affiliation to PR or the customers listed here. I'm just posting this in the spirit of fairness, as i believe everyone should have an opportunity to defend themselvs.
heres the link.
pinapple defense
for the lazy ppl....
"To: Participants of this forum
From: Rob Golden, Owner Pineapple Racing
Date: March 12, 2004
Dear Fellow Rotary Car Enthusiasts,
It has come to my attention that Mr. Brian Thompson and/or Mr. Keith Thompson have been presenting inaccurate information to you about problems they encountered with an engine rebuilt by my company. It has been my policy to not publicly address issues such as this because I feel they should be handled with private customer communications. I am reluctant to address these situations publicly because it is difficult to do without degrading someone's reputation or image. However, since the Thompsons have been presenting inaccurate information detrimental to Pineapple Racing's reputation and image, and only presenting part of the situation as well as untruths, I believe an exception in this case is appropriate.
I would like you to remember that there is more than one side to any story. I am sharing a copy of a letter sent to Mr. Keith Thompson by registered mail in December 2003 indicating my position regarding the damage that occurred to Mr. Thompson's engine. The information presented in the letter that follows has not been challenged by the Thompsons in writing nor verbally as of the date of this posting. Please read it as it summarizes "my side of the story" as of December 5th, 2003.
Thank you for considering this additional information as you develop perceptions and opinions of this unfortunate situation.
Rob Golden, Owner, Pineapple Racing
================================================== ========
12-5-03
Mr. Keith Thompson,
Based on your conversation with Joel, Pineapple Racing Shop Manager, on Tuesday evening, 12-2-03, it is our impression that your position is that it is our responsibility to repair the damaged engine even though our tear down failure analysis indicated that the engine damage was not a result of defective parts or workmanship. In fact, during the engine tear-down inspection, during which Brian Thompson was present, we found no indication that the oiling system, nor the bearings, were defective. Brian said the car seized up while being driven. Brian further stated that the engine had good oil pressure and that the oil level was correct at the time it seized. During the early stages of this project, and several times after encountering problems, Brian said he had several other engines for us to rebuild. This would indicate a longer term business arrangement was his intent. We were going to take care of this as a good will gesture towards a longer term business relationship with Brian. From Joel's conversation with you on Tuesday, 12-2-03, it appears that the intention of a longer term business relationship never existed. Since Brian's repeated statements of additional business weren't accurate, that makes other statements by Brian suspect as well.
Brian had mentioned having a difficult time starting the engine. Brian thought this was because fuel injector/computer related problems were causing a tremendous amount of engine cranking without the engine starting. Brian also mentioned he installed two new oil coolers and new oil lines. The oil lines he added he said have two extra feet of line each to increase the oil capacity of the system. We believe the additional oil line length and the new oil coolers created a situation where the oil pump did not prime during the cranking. Brian didn't mention checking for oil pressure during cranking. Right after start-up Brain said he heard some knocking noise from engine/transmission area. Per our policy, if there is a doubt or question about the engine, call us. And Brain did not contact us. Our conclusion from our failure analysis and the information Brian provided is that the damage to the engine happened at start-up because of improper engine start-up procedures. And that the knocking noise Brian heard was the rear rotor hitting the side plates from extreme bearing clearances caused by improper engine start-up procedures resulting in a non-primed oiling system. No other engine built using bearings from that same bearing production run experienced problems. That eliminates the possibility of a defective bearing being installed and producing this damage. If the bearing had been defective, it would not have lasted the 1200 miles that it did. Since the engine seized while being driven with good oil pressure, and that during the tear down inspection there were no signs of extreme bearing failure, this indicates a major short term oil pressure loss. The tear down and testing of the components in front of Brian showed no defects. It was disappointing that you did not want us to send out components for independent inspection. We believe this would support our conclusion. Further investigation of our own with other rotary engine professionals has reinforced our position that the damage was not caused by defective parts or workmanship.
In addition, the obnoxious and aggressive style of communication you used in speaking with Chris, Pineapple Racing employee, over the telephone on 12-4-03 is not acceptable. I will not participate in further conversations where obnoxious and aggressive communication is presented and I am instructing my team here at Pineapple Racing to do the same. If you choose to contact us treating myself, and my team with respect and using a reasonable style of communication, we will continue to discuss this with you. Otherwise, communication will be strictly limited to the written word.
Rob Golden, Owner
Pineapple Racing"
heres the link.
pinapple defense
for the lazy ppl....
"To: Participants of this forum
From: Rob Golden, Owner Pineapple Racing
Date: March 12, 2004
Dear Fellow Rotary Car Enthusiasts,
It has come to my attention that Mr. Brian Thompson and/or Mr. Keith Thompson have been presenting inaccurate information to you about problems they encountered with an engine rebuilt by my company. It has been my policy to not publicly address issues such as this because I feel they should be handled with private customer communications. I am reluctant to address these situations publicly because it is difficult to do without degrading someone's reputation or image. However, since the Thompsons have been presenting inaccurate information detrimental to Pineapple Racing's reputation and image, and only presenting part of the situation as well as untruths, I believe an exception in this case is appropriate.
I would like you to remember that there is more than one side to any story. I am sharing a copy of a letter sent to Mr. Keith Thompson by registered mail in December 2003 indicating my position regarding the damage that occurred to Mr. Thompson's engine. The information presented in the letter that follows has not been challenged by the Thompsons in writing nor verbally as of the date of this posting. Please read it as it summarizes "my side of the story" as of December 5th, 2003.
Thank you for considering this additional information as you develop perceptions and opinions of this unfortunate situation.
Rob Golden, Owner, Pineapple Racing
================================================== ========
12-5-03
Mr. Keith Thompson,
Based on your conversation with Joel, Pineapple Racing Shop Manager, on Tuesday evening, 12-2-03, it is our impression that your position is that it is our responsibility to repair the damaged engine even though our tear down failure analysis indicated that the engine damage was not a result of defective parts or workmanship. In fact, during the engine tear-down inspection, during which Brian Thompson was present, we found no indication that the oiling system, nor the bearings, were defective. Brian said the car seized up while being driven. Brian further stated that the engine had good oil pressure and that the oil level was correct at the time it seized. During the early stages of this project, and several times after encountering problems, Brian said he had several other engines for us to rebuild. This would indicate a longer term business arrangement was his intent. We were going to take care of this as a good will gesture towards a longer term business relationship with Brian. From Joel's conversation with you on Tuesday, 12-2-03, it appears that the intention of a longer term business relationship never existed. Since Brian's repeated statements of additional business weren't accurate, that makes other statements by Brian suspect as well.
Brian had mentioned having a difficult time starting the engine. Brian thought this was because fuel injector/computer related problems were causing a tremendous amount of engine cranking without the engine starting. Brian also mentioned he installed two new oil coolers and new oil lines. The oil lines he added he said have two extra feet of line each to increase the oil capacity of the system. We believe the additional oil line length and the new oil coolers created a situation where the oil pump did not prime during the cranking. Brian didn't mention checking for oil pressure during cranking. Right after start-up Brain said he heard some knocking noise from engine/transmission area. Per our policy, if there is a doubt or question about the engine, call us. And Brain did not contact us. Our conclusion from our failure analysis and the information Brian provided is that the damage to the engine happened at start-up because of improper engine start-up procedures. And that the knocking noise Brian heard was the rear rotor hitting the side plates from extreme bearing clearances caused by improper engine start-up procedures resulting in a non-primed oiling system. No other engine built using bearings from that same bearing production run experienced problems. That eliminates the possibility of a defective bearing being installed and producing this damage. If the bearing had been defective, it would not have lasted the 1200 miles that it did. Since the engine seized while being driven with good oil pressure, and that during the tear down inspection there were no signs of extreme bearing failure, this indicates a major short term oil pressure loss. The tear down and testing of the components in front of Brian showed no defects. It was disappointing that you did not want us to send out components for independent inspection. We believe this would support our conclusion. Further investigation of our own with other rotary engine professionals has reinforced our position that the damage was not caused by defective parts or workmanship.
In addition, the obnoxious and aggressive style of communication you used in speaking with Chris, Pineapple Racing employee, over the telephone on 12-4-03 is not acceptable. I will not participate in further conversations where obnoxious and aggressive communication is presented and I am instructing my team here at Pineapple Racing to do the same. If you choose to contact us treating myself, and my team with respect and using a reasonable style of communication, we will continue to discuss this with you. Otherwise, communication will be strictly limited to the written word.
Rob Golden, Owner
Pineapple Racing"
Rob is not an ******* unless you are first.
03-12-2004, 11:40 PM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 10,906
Originally Posted by SPEED_NYC' date='Mar 13 2004, 12:13 AM
Our conclusion from our failure analysis and the information Brian provided is that the damage to the engine happened at start-up because of improper engine start-up procedures.
03-12-2004, 11:45 PM
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,089
Originally Posted by 1Revvin7' date='Mar 12 2004, 09:40 PM
What is the " proper engine start-up procedure" ?
03-23-2005, 09:02 AM
#78
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: My BIG ol TURBO-DIESEL
Posts: 5,181
Just an update..
I opened up the Peri-Port that ROB GOLDEN personally assembled and found out that he forgot/neglected/overlooked installing the E-Shaft oil Jets, springs and Check *****.
His answer: "I guess I crewed the pooch on that one" 3/19/05 ~ 3:00 PM
GOOD LUCK in obtaining a quality engine that is correctly assembled!
I opened up the Peri-Port that ROB GOLDEN personally assembled and found out that he forgot/neglected/overlooked installing the E-Shaft oil Jets, springs and Check *****.
His answer: "I guess I crewed the pooch on that one" 3/19/05 ~ 3:00 PM
GOOD LUCK in obtaining a quality engine that is correctly assembled!
03-23-2005, 06:48 PM
#79
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 564
[quote name='banzaitoyota' date='Mar 23 2005, 07:02 AM']Just an update..
I opened up the Peri-Port that ROB GOLDEN personally assembled and found out that he forgot/neglected/overlooked installing the E-Shaft oil Jets, springs and Check *****.
His answer: "I guess I crewed the pooch on that one" 3/19/05 ~ 3:00 PM
GOOD LUCK in obtaining a quality engine that is correctly assembled!
[/quote]
This whole thread was like deja vu.....
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.ph...76&page=1&pp=15
http://members.shaw.ca/fc3s/
I opened up the Peri-Port that ROB GOLDEN personally assembled and found out that he forgot/neglected/overlooked installing the E-Shaft oil Jets, springs and Check *****.
His answer: "I guess I crewed the pooch on that one" 3/19/05 ~ 3:00 PM
GOOD LUCK in obtaining a quality engine that is correctly assembled!
[snapback]689656[/snapback]
[/quote]
This whole thread was like deja vu.....
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.ph...76&page=1&pp=15
http://members.shaw.ca/fc3s/
03-24-2005, 03:12 AM
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 116
Just read this thread from start to finish...
Few questions....
Ok , i under the how the lack of oil pressure/lubrication during the initial start up would **** up the bearing and **** .... But how the hell does lack of lubrication put jb weld on the housing or effect the porting that was done to the engine . Those porting were the most mismatched porting i have ever seen . Were the housing of both secondaries or one primary and one secondary ? The rotors were really discoloured what that cause of it the time it spent in the open or were they put into the engine that way . You can't deny there are some questions that are not dismissed by just lack of priming the oil system .
Few questions....
Ok , i under the how the lack of oil pressure/lubrication during the initial start up would **** up the bearing and **** .... But how the hell does lack of lubrication put jb weld on the housing or effect the porting that was done to the engine . Those porting were the most mismatched porting i have ever seen . Were the housing of both secondaries or one primary and one secondary ? The rotors were really discoloured what that cause of it the time it spent in the open or were they put into the engine that way . You can't deny there are some questions that are not dismissed by just lack of priming the oil system .