This is now the only way I have to even attempt to voice my concern over the corruption of what was once the leadership of the MRCCFL. I am afraid of what will become of the club that I loved.



Ian, the now current dictator (I'm not kidding) of the MRCCFL, has disbanded all of the officers of the MRCCFL.



Jerry (secretary) put in his resignation for Dec 31, as did Ron (southwest VP), and Ken (webmaster and newsletter editor). Paul (director of ops) left a few weeks ago, Jack (VP of First Coast) was kicked off for cursing in an email, and Damian (gold coast VP) if you haven't been for the same reason please let me know. Ian was threatening Christi (VP of Panhandle) with removal because her 2 cars were totaled in the hurricane!! I was on the list as an advisor and as the last VP of spacecoast and I was removed yesterday after trying to send the attached email. That leaves Ian and his girlfriend (who he just recently appointed to a position and who he wanted to be the second signer on the account).



This is out of control.



Ian has a way with words (he is a publicist and writer by trade), he and his girlfriend have systematically picked at and drove away everyone that has worked so hard for this club. Now all that is left is him, and he is free to do with it what he wants.



HE disappeared for 5 months last time, but at least he didn't have almost $4000 of the MRCCFL's money, now he does.



The list is moderated, that is he and only he approves every post made to the email list. So much for a club, welcome to Fidel's Mazda Rotary Car Communist of Florida.



There is so much that I could tell you all but I am so disgusted right now, it just makes me sick to see how he has torn apart these friendships. It makes me very angry. And why did he do it, for what? The only reason I can see is money, or perceived power.



Guess what Ian, when you piss everyone off and they all leave, who are you going to boss around? You'll have our money, but I will still have my friendships and I will take those over money any day.



Jon Fitzsimmons

past Spacecoast VP of the MRCCFL

'93 TGM base





---Last email sent by me to what was the officers list of the MRCCFL (it never went through)------------





Karen (Ian's girlfriend) said

>>Ian never left. That is proven to be false - it is hype - it is

>>propaganda



Let's have a little look-see



MRCCFL list:



2/20/04 - 7/10/04



NOT ONE SINGLE FREAKIN EMAIL FROM IAN IN THAT TIME PERIOD. NONE!



I know he was thinking sweet nothings about the club, that's great.



5 months with NO CONTACT FROM THE PRESIDENT.



THAT IS IAN LEAVING.



SHUT UP



DON’T' ******* TRY TO PLAY INTEGRITY AGAINST ME. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HONOR IS WHAT IT IS LIKE TO PUT YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE FOR SOMETHING EVERY DAY. GO BACK AND HIDE BEHIND YOUR CALCULATOR AND KEYBOARD, I WILL DEFEND THIS COUNTRY FOR WHINERS LIKE YOU.



Jon







-----Original Message-----

From: Officers at MRCCFL [mailto:mrccfl@coollist.com]

Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 9:59 PM

To: Officers at MRCCFL

Subject: Officers Re:Question regarding Brian Smith





Me chiming in again. And as always just REACTING secondarily to the inflammatory, inaccurate, and disrespectful trash you throw at the person who over the course of time, has done MORE for this club than anyone else on this board. When you attack, I attack. If you cant take it, then don't attack, or get out of the kitchen altogether.



Jon wrote:

> Not Karen, who just pops in to jab and poke at people.



Inaccurate portrayal. I only react to unfair attacks on Ian. You all say it first. then I come in and defend. You just don't like what I say. In other words; you all can dish it out but you sure as hell can't take it back https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png funny how that works.



> who have done nothing in their entire...ENTIRE time

> on this list but help build the MRCCFL...and

> this is the thanks they get.



Inaccurate portrayal. They also attack Ian, have tried to build a coup to oust him, try to smear his reputation and try to bully him into resigning several times. All resulting from a vendetta perpetrated by Ron and Ken because they claim their feelings "got hurt". Poor guys. All Ian wanted to do was to get the business of the club straightened out, but it did not mesh with Ron and Kens objectives (who had no right), so they fought Ian on it, and those who lack integrity got suckered in to take up arms with Ron and Ken's fight to smear Ian's reputation. I just find that despicable and sickening. Ian MORE than earned the right to have your support, and this is how you repay him?



> Selfless devotion, both in their time and

> money; Jerry, Ron, Ken, Jack, Eddie, and Damian,



AND Ian too - HELLO, are you forgetting? Perhaps integrity might urge you to reword this statement.



> And then when you come back it's all IAN IAN

> IAN, no MRCCFL buddy.



Ian never left. That is proven to be false - it is hype - it is propaganda - it is trickery. Stop playing that card because it lacks integrity and most members are satisfied with Ian's explanation that exposes this theory as false propaganda. The more you guys regurgitate it, the worse you look.



>>and the positions you have chosen to support.

> Holy crap, have I not said enough that you have my support.



Yes you said a few good things about Ian, but more often you have argued on the side of the liars. Jon straighten up and fly right. You remind me of those service men who join the armed forces under the direction of the commander and chief (the President of the U.S.) and then bad mouth him. Lack of integrity, lack of honor, disrespect for duty. Let me ask you this... If President Bush was in your care while in Iraq, would you protect him even if you disagreed with his policies? What does SERVICE BEFORE SELF tell you to do?



Karen





----- Original Message -----

From: "Officers at MRCCFL" <mrccfl@coollist.com>

To: "Officers at MRCCFL" <mrccfl@coollist.com>

Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 7:34 PM

Subject: Officers RE:Re:Question regarding Brian Smith



Yeah Ian, thanks for the words in my mouth. Are you trying to paint me as some sort of misogynist??? (in case you need this here

http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...&q=misogynist) Did you ever hear me object to anything Christi has said?!? NO! She actually has productive (not negative or positive, but PRODUCTIVE) and well thought out comments and proposed solutions to problems.



Not Karen, who just pops in to jab and poke at people who have done nothing in their entire...ENTIRE time on this list but help build the MRCCFL...and this is the thanks they get. Selfless devotion, both in their time and money; Jerry, Ron, Ken, Jack, Eddie, and Damian, I am very thankful and in awe of your service. And if I every do 1/10 of what any of you have done (and I'm sure will continue to do) for the state's rotary community it will be an accomplishment for me.



Yes, integrity first Ian. But you know what the next one is...SERVICE BEFORE SELF. Not self before service. I know you were sick, that's fine, but you NEVER TOLD US. WTF? And then when you come back it's all IAN IAN IAN, no MRCCFL buddy. You might need to get a hold of yourself.



A few line item comments here-



>and the positions you have chosen to support.

Holy crap, have I not said enough that you have my support. For me it is the lesser of the two evils right now, but it doesn't have to be that way. Ian, you need to LEAD, not COMMAND. Big difference.



>General Charles A. Gabriel, Chief of Staff, USAF

Former



Ian, just read what you wrote...then actually follow it and we will all be happy and shutup https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



BTW, we have a little saying in fighter squadrons for junior pilots such as myself (read dumb and inexperienced). And I quote "Think about what you are going to say, say it to yourself, then DON'T ****** SAY IT!"



Jon



P.s. And yes, they call that rule #1, and I get hammered for that more than anything. Those of you that know me will find little surprise in that.



-----Original Message-----

From: Officers at MRCCFL [mailto:mrccfl@coollist.com]

Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 5:00 AM

To: Officers at MRCCFL

Subject: Officers Re:Question regarding Brian Smith



> Yeah Damian, I don't think she understood the

> acronym, thanks for spelling it out (she needed it) ;-)

>

> Jon



She needed it? Hey, maybe she needs a good beating too? Jonathan Fitzimmons, get a hold of yourself! Read through some of you recent emails, and look at what you write. Ask your squadron commander and first sergeant about Honor, Integrity, Mutual Respect, Loyalty, and Chain of Command. These ideals should have been covered in your ROTC General Military Course! Then come back and look at the things you have said, your method of delivery, and the positions you have chosen to support.



"Integrity is the fundamental premise of military service in a free society. Without integrity, the moral pillars of our military strength, public trust, and self-respect are lost." (General Charles A. Gabriel, Chief of Staff,

USAF)



To have integrity also is to respect oneself as a professional and a human being, and to recognize that other beings deserve the same consideration. A person of integrity does not behave in ways that would bring discredit upon himself or the organization to which he belongs, whether it be the United States Air Force or a simple car club.



Read what you said above one more time and tell me if it is becoming of a gentleman and a USAF Officer.



Damian: Its ok to disagree and voice your opinions, but you are taking it way too far, not once but repeatedly. I warned you about this privately but your outbursts only get worse. You aren't just voicing your concerns, you are downright abusive. Nothing constructive comes form you in an effort to resolve issues. You only care about inflaming the situation and I am tired of seeing your foul language on my monitor. Furthermore, your support of Brian Smith is detrimental to the welfare of this club. All of these things are unbecoming of a board member. Don't you think its time to resign your position?



Ian Savage





----- Original Message -----

From: Officers at MRCCFL

To: Officers at MRCCFL

Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:16 AM

Subject: Officers RE:Re:Officers Re:Question regarding Brian Smith





Yeah Damian, I don't think she understood the acronym, thanks for spelling it out (she needed it) ;-)



Jon



-----Original Message-----

From: Officers at MRCCFL [mailto:mrccfl@coollist.com]

Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 6:30 AM

To: Officers at MRCCFL

Subject: Officers Re:Officers Re:Question regarding Brian Smith



LOLOLOLOLOL.......Thanks Karen. Its good to get a laugh this morning. Do me a favor, SHOW ME where I have given indirect answers (make sure you include the question also). I could care less what people think of me, if I did that I wouldn't accomplish anything. As for Brian, I don't give a rats ass what he wants to do with HIS car, its HIS car, HIS money, HIS time thats going to be involved in doing whatever swap he wants to do. Should his name be on the ballot is what the question was. My answer, YES, for the reasons that he is a paid member, he wanted to run for it, his nomination was accepted. So yes his name should be there (those are the rules are they not?). What was indirect about that? What have I been *wishy washy* on? Oh and heres something else you can do for me.....SHUT THE F___ UP!! Can you tell if I was joking?



Damian



Officers at MRCCFL <mrccfl@coollist.com> wrote:

Damian. You cant even tell when someone is joking. There is no points thing but if there was, you would lead it. Read past emails and you'll see that every time Ian has ever asked a question, you have given and indirect answer. Does that mean you are unsure of yourself and afraid of what people will think of your answers? Take a position for gods sake and dont be so wishy washy. As far as I'm concerned I think your first answer also answered the 2nd question. If you think Brian with his crazy ideas should be allowed to even be on the ballot, then that means its because you want to vote for him.



Christi and Jack have not answered these questions either.



Karen

Assistant Secretary/Treasurer





----- Original Message -----

From: Officers at MRCCFL

To: Officers at MRCCFL

Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:58 AM

Subject: Officers Re:Re:Re:Question regarding Brian Smith



Oh so now we are up to keeping a points system...LOLOL. You sure you want to do that?? Afterall you are the KING of "sidestepping" as you call it. But to answer your question YET AGAIN!! Send out the ballots and you will get your answer.



Damian



Officers at MRCCFL <mrccfl@coollist.com> wrote:

Damian wrote:

> 2. Why should any of us here tell you who were are going to vote for?

> Send out the complete ballots and the voters will decide who they

> want. 3. See above answer.

>

> Damian



Sidestepping penalty 2 points. Why don't you just answer my questions.



Ian Savage

From: Officers at MRCCFL

To: Officers at MRCCFL

Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:50 AM

Subject: Officers Re:Question regarding Brian Smith



Are you really serious!!??

Ian, you are about to send out ballots, are those ballots complete? Are there names for ALL elected positions? Last I saw there was not. 1. Yes Brian should have his name on the ballot, he was nominated and it was accepted/seconded. 2. Why should any of us here tell you who were are going to vote for? Send out the complete ballots and the voters will decide who they want. 3. See above answer.



Damian



Officers at MRCCFL <mrccfl@coollist.com> wrote:

This is step one of sending out the ballots. I am ready to send the ballots but I have a few questions.



Officers

1) should Brian Smith have his name on the ballot since he is promoting V8 swaps and this is a rotary car club?

2) who here will vote for me to keep Brian S from doing things like changing the name of the club?

3) who here will vote for Brian Smith?



I heard from Michel and Jim. Michel wants to be on the ballot for EVP and Jim just wants a regional VP appointed after the election.



Ian Savage

So, he removed you from the list? I hope he at least removed Paul as well, who has asked at least twice to be removed since he resigned his position.



I won't bother rehashing too many facts here, but:



When I decided to run for President, I knew I was doing it for all the right reasons. Some people may not have liked it or thought I should give Ian one more year out of respect, but they were not in the position I and other officers had been in.



Through the course of the weeks that followed after my nomination, it became clear to me I would not be able to change how I thought things should be done. I was focused on more of a grassroots car club, but it appeared others didn't share my interests. For that reason, I withdrew my nomination to run for MRCCFL President. I contemplated my future with the club and decided it was best I leave as an officer.



Since elections will not have been completed by the first of the year, I will indeed resign my position effective January 1st.



Despite conflicts over who is eligible to run for President, or final accounting, or bank statements, or whatever, there is a problem when most of the officers feel they cannot work with two of the others.



It will be interesting to see how MRCCFL operates next year.



Jon, good luck and thanks for doing your part in defending this great country of ours. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683683.gif

Good! It should be a ******* dictatorship. I have seen too many good clubs go down the shitter for the same bullshit Ian is going through.



Ian asked where the money was and suddenly out of no where everyone wants an election for the first time since Ian resurrected the club from the toilet.



So now there is a little circle that wants him gone. Its bullshit.



I do not want to be presidant or VP or any officer of the club. I will however help if needed with whatever planning for events or meets that is needed. I dont need a title to feel important.



Then you have Brian coming along wanting to change the name of the club to RX club so his V-8 swapped car can fit in. Way to have an agenda there fella.



Dictatorship?? Hell yeah! Kudo's to Ian for grabbing his balls and saying **** you to everyone that is trying to **** up this club.



Ian has done some wonderful things and made this club its most active in years if not ever. God forbid he be distracted with sickness and not ba able to watch the goings on of the other officers and how stupid of him to trust everyone would be honest and not dip into the cookie jar.



This is all bullshit.





IAN for DICTATOR - 2005!!

I have an Idea. If all you guys love Rotaries so much offer to help out.



Ian should run it for one more year. He is a good guy and deserves it. Once we come to the end of the next year. Ian can look over the members and see who has been pitching in and helping and ask them to take over as dictator. When that person is tired of running things then he can step down and assign another.



All this posturing and "withdrawing" is making me think I am watching Dr. Ruth.



If you guys are so hell bent on a title go joing your local Homeowners Association because that is what the MRCCFL has been looking like lately with all this bullshit, a HOA.

Yeah, see, this is why I'm done with this.



Jim, you're a great guy and have done a hell of a job organizing events. But I find it insulting that I'm somehow looked down upon for leaving if I don't agree with the current leader 100%.



And Ian isn't the only one who helped revive the club. I've organized many events myself too.



Forget it, I've moved on, I'm not going to get worked up over this.

Jim, you seemed like a real level headed guy.



We all do love rotaries and we all have helped out, the last 4 years all of us have been around. And we have all done alot more than the talking that Ian has done. There is no circle. It is everyone who was 100% supporters of Ian, he has alienated us with lies, sidestepping, and a simple lack of respect.



Ian didn't know where the money was because he wasn't around. The officers had come to agreement on how to collect the money for memberships once we realized Ian was gone and Ken accounted for every penny of it to the officers and Ian. That's more than Ian can say for he $800 he collected in 3 years, all we ever got was a statement showing the balance, now transaction history for the past 3 years. Nothing.



I don't want a title, I never did. I wanted to put together events to. So does Jerry. That's why we aren't officers anymore. No one is.



Just to clarify the activity in the last year was solely the resposibility of the now defunct officers, we did it.



Ian is the one who needs a title to feel important, he is the one hell bent, and he is the one that is ruining this club. For God sakes if you change your last name from McDonald because kids made fun of you when you were a kid you know you must have issues.



Jon

Yes Jerry, you are right.



I live in Oklahoma right now courtesy of the USAF. When I do get back to good old FL, the only thing I can hope for is that there still is a MRCCFL for me to be a part of. I can still hope. And if not at least I will know whos retirement fund I helped out.



Jim, keep up the great work you've been doing as of late, and hopefully you will still be around when I get back, I would love to go to one of these rotary autox's



With that said I have a tactical formation flight tomorrow morning in the T-38 and I need to get studying, especially because I will be formation solo tomorrow afternoon https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683683.gif



Jon

'93 TGM base

Then CONTINUE to help out and I will be willing to bet you will be the next Dicatator.



What is going on with Ron and his brother looks totally seedy from where I am. I have no idea what is going on I have talked to no one except Damian and he is even elusive when asked directly WTF is going on with the money?



Jerry, your a great guy. It pisses me off that you stepped down from the elections and a dude with an agenda to ruin this club is posturing to get elected.



I would rather see you step up and help, I have offered too. Damian has also displayed excellent qualities and the ability to arrange events as well.



I am sure there are others too. If we all could work together we could so so much more that just "elect" an official. We could organize some kick ass events and make people want to join.



My friend and I were talking about this turmoil. He said he saw his local Parrothead club die from this exact disease. He also saw a Jeep club do the same.



Sometimes democracy isnt the answer a man in charge handing out assignments works better. Thats how it works with business and MRCCFL should be ran as a business.

As far as money goes, all of it is now in the club's bank account.



Obviously, I can't say with 100% certainty, but I find it laughable for anyone to think Ron or Ken somehow stole any of the club's money. The odds of it are about the same as me winning the lottery (I don't play).

Again, I am a total outsider and have no clue what goes on behind the scenes. I am just calling it like "I" see it.



Ian did resurrect this club. I am also aware his health declined something horrible over the last year or so. The monies were re-routed without permission to Ken.



Now, wether or not Ian is on the ball is not the issue. Going behind his back and re-routing the funds was wrong no matter what the reason. The first I heard of this was just prior to the announced elections.



Its all a mute point.



Why not propose the the elected officials be done away with. Let Ian run it for another year with all of us involved. Then appoint a Director and a panel to run the show. If the Director wants out then a Panel member asks to be Director. If someone that has time to contribute wants to be a panel member then he / she becomes one. That simple. A group of people working towards a common cause.



Maybe I am trying to over simplify. But in all honesty this election stuff is just an opportunity for some one like Brian to get in and ruin the club.

I never said they stole the money. But again, diverting funds behind the presidents back, wether you agree with him or not, is just wrong. No matter how much good you think your doing.

so does the dictator get to off people like in the sopranos?

No dude not like the Sopranos. You have to start thinking Dictator. It would be more like the KGB.



The Dictator might have to be well hung though.

Check this link: http://mrccfl.com/funds.shtml



Check the dates, we ALL knew where it was going for quite some time. It just sat there instead of the club's account.



One last thing before I return to leading USF to a win against Army in NCAA Football 2005 (USF is 7-0 and ranked at the top of both polls!)....



Ian has done tremendous things for the club. I will not dispute that. If you only read what I wrote here, that point wouldn't get across.



As far as helping out next year, I've already stated I've moved onto other things. And they still deeply involve a love of the rotary world. I'll show up at MRCCFL events. I just won't be organizing anything beyond local get togethers of people I know will show up.

oh, so the dictator has many bitches, and gets to walk around in strip clubs like he owns the place?

I can understand that Jerry and respect your decision.



Well, if I can ever help out let me know. We have been toying around with heading up to Deals Gap in April for the big Rotaries at Dragons Tail event being organized by a guy over on club. If you want to plan a caravan from Florida let me know.



I hope your heading to the winter retreat too. I t would be good to see you there.



-Jim

I'll definitely be there Saturday, not sure about Friday yet.

Uh, how did I manage to add that?

we're onto you! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png

Dude WTF is up with the bike??

And what's up with the seats?

that's the dictator seats

Is this or could this be a place to post without modertion ? ? ? WTF cussing allowed ? ? ? I can't believe it ! ! ! !

There was no diverting funds behind Ian back. The funds were diverted in agreement with all of the board members in *Ian's absence*.



It was all spelled out on the Officers list at the time, and if he had bothered to read it he would have seen it.



The reason it was done is because money was going into the clubs supposed account and there was no one to verify anything about it. So people would send in a check for membership, and no word would come from Ian, then that person would complain that they didn't have their sticker, card, shirt, etc. We had no way of knowing that they had even sent money in, because Ian was the only one with access to the account and he was gone. Hence Ken took over the funds and things have been working fine ever since then, that is until Ian came back and started this mess.



Sorry to kick a dead horse here, I just want to get the facts straight for eveyone.



Jon

Whoa....all these posts in 2 days. I guess people prefer saying something knowing it will get posted instead of *hoping* it will get posted.

Not to rehash this stuff, but I feel the need to clarify further.

Jim, I understand all of what you said and I could see how/why you do because you said it yourself, you can only comment on what *you* see.

What Jerry and Jon were trying to point out was what went on without anyones knowledge.

Also to emphasize...NO ONE has ever disputed what Ian has done for the club, we all know he has done wonders compared to what it once was. We've ALL stated this before. The problem the officers have with Ian, is his methods and actions of doing things as of late. Yes some how it got blown up into a big ordeal.

If he wants the club to be a *dictatorship* fine, structure it so that it can function that way. But to have it being sold as a democracy, structured as a democracy, and operated as such in the past, then on a whim turn around and do the opposite is hypocritical.

Facts!!

Ian was absent due to illness....none of the officers knew of this until his return. Ian says he was always here, but as pointed out no form communication, especially when important questions were being asked (funds related), was coming from Ian...I call that being absent.

The officers took upon themselves to act instead of to wait for an anwer.

All money that came in was UNTOUCHED, all events were done out peoples own pockets.

There is more but I think Ive gone on long enough, as of now Im still an officer, that leaves Ian, Jerry (until the 1st), Karen, Ron (I haven't seen anyting stating otherwise) and myself. Gone is Christi, Jack (Ians doing), Paul and Ken (thier choice). With Jerry leaving that will only be 2, but being that Ian has asked/told Ron and myself to resign, I guess that will leave Ian and his significant other to run and control the club and its members money. If no one can see a problem with that then its ok. I however, do see a problem with it and therefore will not have any part, as that is not what I signed up for.

[quote name='fitzrx7' date='Dec 21 2004, 04:13 PM']



Ian, the now current dictator (I'm not kidding) of the MRCCFL, has disbanded all of the officers of the MRCCFL.



Jerry (secretary) put in his resignation for Dec 31, as did Ron (southwest VP), and Ken (webmaster and newsletter editor). Paul (director of ops) left a few weeks ago, Jack (VP of First Coast) was kicked off for cursing in an email, and Damian (gold coast VP) if you haven't been for the same reason please let me know. Ian was threatening Christi (VP of Panhandle) with removal because her 2 cars were totaled in the hurricane!! I was on the list as an advisor and as the last VP of spacecoast and I was removed yesterday after trying to send the attached email. That leaves Ian and his girlfriend (who he just recently appointed to a position and who he wanted to be the second signer on the account).



I starting to think the detailed behavior is boarderline insanity. I guess these and his other insane actions is what he refered to as "getting rid of hooligans."



John P.

I personally think losing damian as an operative member would be a huge loss for the gold coast. I don't think i've seen anyone promote events as succsessfully as he has in the recent past. I don't know exactley what has gone on behind the scenes, but this is gettin a little silly.

I HATE DAMIAN AND ALL OF HIS CHILDREN! I HOPE THAT BIBLICAL PLAGUES KILL YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY!













sorry this thread keeps poppin up and its so much drama that about 10 people on the forum actually know about.

p.s. sorry damian i dont hate you or your children

say your sorry

i did, somebody can delete that post if they want to

Well since I know none of you directly involved I've got little information to go on.



My first questions would be does the club have a charter? Were you given anything upon registration that stated how club funds would be used? Is there a provision for elections?



I have been involved in various clubs over the years, been president, vp and treasurer. I have seen the exact scenario play out several times. There's a couple ways it ALWAYS goes.



1) Club members get pissed at head guy look into the club charter and decided to hold an election, oust the current leadership and move on without them.



2) Club members read the charter, realize there is nothing they can do and that the club was designed and put together in a manner that gives them little or no say in who runs, get pissed, leave start their own club, take a few members that agree with them away, leave the ones that don't behind.



3) Everyone gets pissed, throws up their hands, cusses and swears to the point where no one wants anything to do with anyone and the club folds.



Scenario two is usually the better for all involved. The members of the old club that are happy with the way it runs stay behind and the new ones move onto to their club.



There's really never any way to please everyone. You oust the current leadership and the ones that liked him hate you and either stick around and make every effort to push you out the door and leave all together. Voting a new person in charge seems like a great idea, but there's never a way to please everyone, as soon as you start to try whatever you do please a few pisses off the rest. You might call it a dictatorship, but I've never seen a club survive any other way, you start trying to please everyone and meetings end up looking like a bunch of ladies arguing over what color ribbon to get for the summer ball... things go no where.



As far as the money, usually you have no say over what it's spent on in a club. The people in charge make the decisions, if that pisses you off then you should have figured out where the money was going and what safety's were in order so that it didn't get spent on something you don't want it to be spent on.



That's my two cents for whatever they are worth. Decided what you want to do and get it done.

Do you really want the details?



John P.

i've gotten the jist more or less from Jim, i dunno what side of the story it is.



Doesn't this topic sum it up more or less?

I honestly think the details are irrelavent at this point. What needs to be decided is if there is going to be a future with the MRCCFL.



I have discussed all this drama with Phins at great lengths and he already painted the picture described above for me. I am glad to see he took the time to comment here.



What some of you big players in the club need to decide is wether or not you can really walk away and not be involved in a club anymore.



I myself never liked clubs too much and this drama is exactly why. I was VERY VERY appreciative that Ian was able to negotiate a Rotary Owners appreciation day for the Mazda Rev It Up 2 years ago. The prompted me to get more involved in the club (it being my 1st ever event) and meeting a few of you there. John Fitz for one.



Then I met Damian and Mazdadrifter is right the guy knows how to promote a event like no other. He is an asset to MRCCFL and will be missed sorely.



I like Ian and have met him on a couple of occasions. I am sad to see MRCCFL has deteriorated to the point that it looks like it will break up.



I have read all you have typed and see where you are frustrated and from your side of the story it looks like you have a legit gripe.



Like I said before I am very NOT interested in being an officer of a club, but, am willing to help out in any way possible to better the Rotary community in Florida



But, the big question here is. Where do you go from here?? Another Club cetered around Damian, Jerry, Ron and Ken?? This is something you guys need to decide..

Well since I know none of you directly involved I've got little information to go on.



My first questions would be does the club have a charter? Were you given anything upon registration that stated how club funds would be used? Is there a provision for elections?



I have been involved in various clubs over the years, been president, vp and treasurer. I have seen the exact scenario play out several times. There's a couple ways it ALWAYS goes.



1) Club members get pissed at head guy look into the club charter and decided to hold an election, oust the current leadership and move on without them.



Actually, there never has been an election before, this one (if it happens) will be the 1st.



2) Club members read the charter, realize there is nothing they can do and that the club was designed and put together in a manner that gives them little or no say in who runs, get pissed, leave start their own club, take a few members that agree with them away, leave the ones that don't behind.



In speaking for myself, I know Im not about to start any new club or join any others.



3) Everyone gets pissed, throws up their hands, cusses and swears to the point where no one wants anything to do with anyone and the club folds.



It seems this is the point where some of us are right now, but I still think/hope its fixable.



Scenario two is usually the better for all involved. The members of the old club that are happy with the way it runs stay behind and the new ones move onto to their club.

There's really never any way to please everyone. You oust the current leadership and the ones that liked him hate you and either stick around and make every effort to push you out the door and leave all together. Voting a new person in charge seems like a great idea, but there's never a way to please everyone, as soon as you start to try whatever you do please a few pisses off the rest. You might call it a dictatorship, but I've never seen a club survive any other way, you start trying to please everyone and meetings end up looking like a bunch of ladies arguing over what color ribbon to get for the summer ball... things go no where.



I understand about not pleasing everyone, that will always be the case. However, the last meeting that was held by the officers, I think went very well. There was topics discussed and the end result came about via a vote. So in a sense we have proven it can work.



As far as the money, usually you have no say over what it's spent on in a club. The people in charge make the decisions, if that pisses you off then you should have figured out where the money was going and what safety's were in order so that it didn't get spent on something you don't want it to be spent on.



Thats just it, the money that was collected never got spent. ALL club operations and events were being done at peoples own expense. Then upon the return of Ian, he basically accuses people of shady tactics inregards to the money.



Thanks for your insight and comments Phins, but as stated before there is quite a bit that went on people are not aware of. So thats where a lot of the confusion and frustrations are coming from.

Yes I think there is still a future for MRCCFL. There are still quite a few members left. I think what is not being noticed or said is that NONE of us wants the club to go away, fall apart or whatever. In speaking for myself, I know the time and effort that I have invested I don't want to see wasted. Im sure the others feel the same way.

Some people did leave by choice. But some are gone not by thier choice, but the choice of 1 person. Inregards to me leaving, this will not be of my own doing. I was asked/told to leave. So I won't stay where Im not wanted or appreciated.

I don't know about the rest of the guys, but Im not trying to start any new club to take away from MRCCFL. If I am gone from MRCCFL, my actions won't change. I will continue to do meets and such, the only difference will be it won't be titled MRCCFL presents.....

I really can't let this one slide.



Jim, I was the one who made all the phone calls and emails to get us into Mazda Rev It Up for free on Media Day. Ian might have said "Yeah, do it", but I did all the leg work and contacted the appropriate people.



If I recall, Ian was on vacation, as he had missed a BBQ and Road Rally at N-Tech a few weeks before Rev It Up.

You see, outsider looking in syndrome. Again I understand all your frustrations now.



And thank you for doing that. It was awesome. I wish we could have done it again last year. At least we got a good turn out displaying cars.



I got to thinking about this whole deal.



I think the days of strong car clubs are passing. They were important years ago when there was no internet to communicate with. But now with forums and mailing lists etc... its very easy to organize and announce a meet for a certain kind of interest wether it be Z-cars or Porsches or RX-7's.



Damian is already planning a dyno day and it deosnt seem to be a MRCCFL event.

Also how many paid members are there? How many showed up at the Speedsource BBQ? A lot and a majority were RX7Club memebers and not MRCCFL members.



Dropping out of the elections for the MRCCFL isnt going to fix this. Jerry or Damian would be good logical next choices. I hope Brian does not get elected I do not like his agenda.

Good point on actual MRCCFL member attendance at events. At the last Tampa event we had, we had over 40 people and close to thirty rotary cars. Nine of them were MRCCFL members. A LOT of attendance is drawn from the people on the forums.



I thought I said I was done with this, LOL. Maybe the free exchange of ideas and the fact that all of us seem calm helps the discussion. Or maybe I'm past the point of being too involved and can give my opinions without too much worry over what happens next.



If I don't respon again, Merry Christmas everybody.