-water Injection-
09-10-2003, 01:47 PM
#121
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,547
Keep going everyone, I'm learning so much.
Then reason I'll stick with Chris' (Dragon) advice is because I never saw a turbo engine without an IC. So that must mean something. Plus, I really don't know ZeroBanger and seriously doubt his knowledge of the rotary due to the simple fact that he hasnt been involved with them as long and as much as Dragon and some of the other members have.
No diss to ZB, but experiance is experiance, and Chris goes through engines like I go through women.
HEHE
Then reason I'll stick with Chris' (Dragon) advice is because I never saw a turbo engine without an IC. So that must mean something. Plus, I really don't know ZeroBanger and seriously doubt his knowledge of the rotary due to the simple fact that he hasnt been involved with them as long and as much as Dragon and some of the other members have.
No diss to ZB, but experiance is experiance, and Chris goes through engines like I go through women.
HEHE
09-10-2003, 05:47 PM
#124
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: bay area
Posts: 235
Originally Posted by Dragon' date='Sep 10 2003, 10:30 AM
but if your intake temp are always cooler from the intercooler doing it's job then the intake manifold won't heat soak as bad and the sensor will not be affected as much by that heat soak. If your intercooler is in the engine compartment then your pretty much screwed and it's going to heat soak to hell and back, but if you have a good front mount it will do its job even when sitting in traffic or idling in a parking lot. Like I said earlier on, let you car heat soak and feel the in and out end tanks you'll notice a huge difference in temp.
Why is there any debate about this?
09-10-2003, 08:14 PM
#125
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 410
To fight the whole heat soaking issue , a FMIC is the way to go , if using a SMIC you can look at an IC water spray or even an IC fan to get air flow through the IC at stand still . The intake temp. sensor will not be noticably affected by the intake manifold heat soaking as the manifold , unlike an IC isn't designed to transfer heat , there are no internal or external fins to increase the surface area to allow this, the speed at which air moves through it is TOO fast to allow any type of substantial temperature change , maybe 1 or 2 deg C at most . Any temperature change is caused by the heat exchanger (IC) which is greatly affected by its location as it IS designed to EXCHANGE HEAT . Yes the intake manifold may feel hot like **** on the outside but that is just from engine heat , I cant even touch mine yet my HALTECH sees nothing more than 50 deg and my turbo "pulls " very hot air right off the back of the radiator . The difference is made by my fmic which CANNOT become heat soaked ,(only maybe in very EXTREME outside conditions ) , as its surface area to volume ratio is just too large , I use the large NPR.You say the FMIC does nothing when sittin in traffic and takes longer to cool down , well guess what you"re wrong because the IC NEVER HEATS UP in the first place !!! , and those "stupid sensors " are the very ones that allow your ECU to run your engine , you should never doubt the instruments / sensors ,they are hardly ever wrong !! . But even with all this talk about heat soak , I still cant understand why you would want to remove your IC because you got the WI , if you have a SMIC you can take a page out of SUBARU's book and put on a water spray , this can be plumbed from the very same WI setup , if you have a FMIC there is just no need.
09-10-2003, 09:37 PM
#126
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: bay area
Posts: 235
To fight the whole heat soaking issue , a FMIC is the way to go , if using a SMIC you can look at an IC water spray or even an IC fan to get air flow through the IC at stand still . The intake temp. sensor will not be noticably affected by the intake manifold heat soaking as the manifold , unlike an IC isn't designed to transfer heat , there are no internal or external fins to increase the surface area to allow this, the speed at which air moves through it is TOO fast to allow any type of substantial temperature change , maybe 1 or 2 deg C at most . Any temperature change is caused by the heat exchanger (IC) which is greatly affected by its location as it IS designed to EXCHANGE HEAT .
Yes the intake manifold may feel hot like **** on the outside but that is just from engine heat , I cant even touch mine yet my HALTECH sees nothing more than 50 deg and my turbo "pulls " very hot air right off the back of the radiator . The difference is made by my fmic which CANNOT become heat soaked ,(only maybe in very EXTREME outside conditions ) , as its surface area to volume ratio is just too large , I use the large NPR.You say the FMIC does nothing when sittin in traffic and takes longer to cool down , well guess what you"re wrong because the IC NEVER HEATS UP in the first place !!! , and those "stupid sensors " are the very ones that allow your ECU to run your engine , you should never doubt the instruments / sensors ,they are hardly ever wrong !! . But even with all this talk about heat soak , I still cant understand why you would want to remove your IC because you got the WI , if you have a SMIC you can take a page out of SUBARU's book and put on a water spray , this can be plumbed from the very same WI setup , if you have a FMIC there is just no need.
2 points.
1) with Water injection there is no point to use a water sprayer setup.
2) I 100 pct agree that that a FMIC does not heatsoak like a SMIC does, BUT the intake sensor will heatsoak the same with either setup. The difference is when you start moving how fast the air cools down (assuming FMIC vs SMIC and no WI on either setup).
Yes the intake manifold may feel hot like **** on the outside but that is just from engine heat , I cant even touch mine yet my HALTECH sees nothing more than 50 deg and my turbo "pulls " very hot air right off the back of the radiator . The difference is made by my fmic which CANNOT become heat soaked ,(only maybe in very EXTREME outside conditions ) , as its surface area to volume ratio is just too large , I use the large NPR.You say the FMIC does nothing when sittin in traffic and takes longer to cool down , well guess what you"re wrong because the IC NEVER HEATS UP in the first place !!! , and those "stupid sensors " are the very ones that allow your ECU to run your engine , you should never doubt the instruments / sensors ,they are hardly ever wrong !! . But even with all this talk about heat soak , I still cant understand why you would want to remove your IC because you got the WI , if you have a SMIC you can take a page out of SUBARU's book and put on a water spray , this can be plumbed from the very same WI setup , if you have a FMIC there is just no need.
2 points.
1) with Water injection there is no point to use a water sprayer setup.
2) I 100 pct agree that that a FMIC does not heatsoak like a SMIC does, BUT the intake sensor will heatsoak the same with either setup. The difference is when you start moving how fast the air cools down (assuming FMIC vs SMIC and no WI on either setup).
09-10-2003, 11:24 PM
#127
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 410
Well man , after all that typing and you still wont even budge , well I give up , to each his own . I am a strong believer in the abilities of WI and wouldn't run without it especially on pump gas , but I still believe that there is a use for each and every component in a GOOD system so I will use my FMIC , good luck to you bro!. 
09-11-2003, 10:19 AM
#128
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: bay area
Posts: 235
Well man , after all that typing and you still wont even budge , well I give up , to each his own . I am a strong believer in the abilities of WI and wouldn't run without it especially on pump gas , but I still believe that there is a use for each and every component in a GOOD system so I will use my FMIC , good luck to you bro!.
I'm not telling you NOT to use your FMIC. Also, my last thread had nothing to do with removing the IC. I simply said there is no need for a intercooler SPRAYER system if you have WI. YOu are just wasting water.
I'm not telling you NOT to use your FMIC. Also, my last thread had nothing to do with removing the IC. I simply said there is no need for a intercooler SPRAYER system if you have WI. YOu are just wasting water.
09-11-2003, 12:33 PM
#129
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 205
Zero I understand the concept that wi comes on at a certain point. But you said that you had yours set for 8psi right. You're not going to get anywhere near that boost level in bumper to bumper traffic so how would wi help when you are SITTING there. I understand once it clears and you can get on it, it will drop but when you sit there, it isn't doing crap, and your car is ingesting hot *** air.
- Hand
- Hand
09-11-2003, 12:46 PM
#130
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,550
So, I'm wondering, do you know that in your power fc hidden where you can't get to them are all kinds of really cool options that you can't see with the commander.... Things like air temp sensor vs fuel and ignition adjustments... I would seriously suggest you get a datalogit so you can adjust these settings.
Also if you have a front mount intercooler it is working even when your not moving and there for running cooler air threw the manifold. This helps keep the air temp sensor from heat soaking as bad so your computer has a way better idea of what's really there from the get go and not 1/2 way threw 4th gear.
Also if you have a front mount intercooler it is working even when your not moving and there for running cooler air threw the manifold. This helps keep the air temp sensor from heat soaking as bad so your computer has a way better idea of what's really there from the get go and not 1/2 way threw 4th gear.