I Have An Idea-turbo Spray
09-09-2003, 04:34 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in my pants
Posts: 227
YOU THIEF!!!!!!!!!! THATS MY IDEA!! 
but seriously, you guys misuderstood. Perhaps I did not convey the idea correctly. This would cool the turbo, not the air. The ic still stays. I have done some work on cooling a computer, pentium4 2.8ghz runnig at 3.7ghz at about -40C. I know turbos get really hot so if you can have a cooling jacket on a cpu and spraying in to it compressed refrigereant = expantion = temps of -50C at no load, why not stick one around the turbo housing... And if you dont want to go that extreem you can have a cooling jacket be submerged in to water/oil that cools the turbo, and cool IT. I dont know, dont go all "he is an idot" on me, I am just trying to find a solution. From my experience with other thinigs that get hot this works very well. Hell, youc an just make it really easy and sacrafice your ac, use the ac compressor hooked up to cooling jacket to cool the oil. The ac compressor is all set up and everything not much modding.... I duno... It makes sence..
but seriously, you guys misuderstood. Perhaps I did not convey the idea correctly. This would cool the turbo, not the air. The ic still stays. I have done some work on cooling a computer, pentium4 2.8ghz runnig at 3.7ghz at about -40C. I know turbos get really hot so if you can have a cooling jacket on a cpu and spraying in to it compressed refrigereant = expantion = temps of -50C at no load, why not stick one around the turbo housing... And if you dont want to go that extreem you can have a cooling jacket be submerged in to water/oil that cools the turbo, and cool IT. I dont know, dont go all "he is an idot" on me, I am just trying to find a solution. From my experience with other thinigs that get hot this works very well. Hell, youc an just make it really easy and sacrafice your ac, use the ac compressor hooked up to cooling jacket to cool the oil. The ac compressor is all set up and everything not much modding.... I duno... It makes sence..
09-09-2003, 06:08 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fredneck MD
Posts: 4,107
Originally Posted by epion2985' date='Sep 9 2003, 05:34 PM
YOU THIEF!!!!!!!!!! THATS MY IDEA!!
but seriously, you guys misuderstood. Perhaps I did not convey the idea correctly. This would cool the turbo, not the air. The ic still stays. I have done some work on cooling a computer, pentium4 2.8ghz runnig at 3.7ghz at about -40C. I know turbos get really hot so if you can have a cooling jacket on a cpu and spraying in to it compressed refrigereant = expantion = temps of -50C at no load, why not stick one around the turbo housing... And if you dont want to go that extreem you can have a cooling jacket be submerged in to water/oil that cools the turbo, and cool IT. I dont know, dont go all "he is an idot" on me, I am just trying to find a solution. From my experience with other thinigs that get hot this works very well. Hell, youc an just make it really easy and sacrafice your ac, use the ac compressor hooked up to cooling jacket to cool the oil. The ac compressor is all set up and everything not much modding.... I duno... It makes sence..
but seriously, you guys misuderstood. Perhaps I did not convey the idea correctly. This would cool the turbo, not the air. The ic still stays. I have done some work on cooling a computer, pentium4 2.8ghz runnig at 3.7ghz at about -40C. I know turbos get really hot so if you can have a cooling jacket on a cpu and spraying in to it compressed refrigereant = expantion = temps of -50C at no load, why not stick one around the turbo housing... And if you dont want to go that extreem you can have a cooling jacket be submerged in to water/oil that cools the turbo, and cool IT. I dont know, dont go all "he is an idot" on me, I am just trying to find a solution. From my experience with other thinigs that get hot this works very well. Hell, youc an just make it really easy and sacrafice your ac, use the ac compressor hooked up to cooling jacket to cool the oil. The ac compressor is all set up and everything not much modding.... I duno... It makes sence..
keep it simple stupid...
Doing all that **** would make everything so much more complicated. The money you spent to make one of these could easily be put into better parts to make more power.
09-09-2003, 06:21 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Dover DE
Posts: 989
Ok I am no physics major so some things I say may not be correct but the idea is there...
Now on to the idea. A/C uses the principals of Thermodynamics, where hot air tries to replace cold air because the molecules in cold air are less dense. A/C is designed with 5 major components. Compressor, Evaporator, condensor, receiver/drier and a orfice tube or multi-metering valve. All of which are on the vehicle already if equipped with A/C.
The A/C primarily takes a high pressure gas from the compressor and forces it through a condensor. The condensor acts like an intercooler and begins the cooling process of the freon. the gas is then sent to a multi metering valve or orfice tube in the system which creates a restriction. As the pressure drops after the restriction the gas is cooler, allowing heat to transfer. The Evaporator sits in an enclosed compartment in the interior and has a fan blowing interior ambient air accross the fins. As the hotter air goes accross the fins heat tries to catch a ride with the cooler evaporator. moistures is formed as the heat is pulled away from the ambient air, much the same as a cool drink on a humid day, heat tries to transfer to the cooler object, and you get all the mess of a sweaty beer. The heated gasses pass through a receiver/drier to remove any moisture in the gasses in the sealed system. The reciver/drier is filled with dessecant. From here the gasses are returned to the compressor to be compressed again and the whole cycle starts over.
In your idea you are talking of cooling the compressor side of the turbo. in all acctuality it would work, but the temperature differences would not be dramatic. automotive A/C was designed for ambient temperatures of 75°-120° F, your turbo compressor see temperatures well above that due to thermal dynamics in the exhaust side of the turbo transferring heat to the compressor side through the shaft of the turbo, and the compressor housing. Add in the engine bay temperatures and you are looking at an average intake tube temp of 90° to 180° F.
The better option would be to build a box in the intake piping that forced the boosted air through an evaporator. The problem with this is the moisture content created. Sitting on the streets you will have puddles forming under the car as the moisture collecting on the evaporator is draining. Most tracks frown on any type of fluid leaking on to the track as well. Also the underhood temperatures would increase as the evaporator heats up, Rotaries already generate enough heat, no need to add more heat in front of the radiator for the cooling fan(s) to deal with
Not to mention the power needed to drive the A/C compressor may outwweigh the benefits it creates.
You would get more benefit from a Water-air intercooler running ice water, because the electric fluid pump would create less of a powerloss to the engine. Or blasting your intercooler with a Co2 Fire extinuisher right before a run.
Now on to the idea. A/C uses the principals of Thermodynamics, where hot air tries to replace cold air because the molecules in cold air are less dense. A/C is designed with 5 major components. Compressor, Evaporator, condensor, receiver/drier and a orfice tube or multi-metering valve. All of which are on the vehicle already if equipped with A/C.
The A/C primarily takes a high pressure gas from the compressor and forces it through a condensor. The condensor acts like an intercooler and begins the cooling process of the freon. the gas is then sent to a multi metering valve or orfice tube in the system which creates a restriction. As the pressure drops after the restriction the gas is cooler, allowing heat to transfer. The Evaporator sits in an enclosed compartment in the interior and has a fan blowing interior ambient air accross the fins. As the hotter air goes accross the fins heat tries to catch a ride with the cooler evaporator. moistures is formed as the heat is pulled away from the ambient air, much the same as a cool drink on a humid day, heat tries to transfer to the cooler object, and you get all the mess of a sweaty beer. The heated gasses pass through a receiver/drier to remove any moisture in the gasses in the sealed system. The reciver/drier is filled with dessecant. From here the gasses are returned to the compressor to be compressed again and the whole cycle starts over.
In your idea you are talking of cooling the compressor side of the turbo. in all acctuality it would work, but the temperature differences would not be dramatic. automotive A/C was designed for ambient temperatures of 75°-120° F, your turbo compressor see temperatures well above that due to thermal dynamics in the exhaust side of the turbo transferring heat to the compressor side through the shaft of the turbo, and the compressor housing. Add in the engine bay temperatures and you are looking at an average intake tube temp of 90° to 180° F.
The better option would be to build a box in the intake piping that forced the boosted air through an evaporator. The problem with this is the moisture content created. Sitting on the streets you will have puddles forming under the car as the moisture collecting on the evaporator is draining. Most tracks frown on any type of fluid leaking on to the track as well. Also the underhood temperatures would increase as the evaporator heats up, Rotaries already generate enough heat, no need to add more heat in front of the radiator for the cooling fan(s) to deal with
Not to mention the power needed to drive the A/C compressor may outwweigh the benefits it creates.
You would get more benefit from a Water-air intercooler running ice water, because the electric fluid pump would create less of a powerloss to the engine. Or blasting your intercooler with a Co2 Fire extinuisher right before a run.
09-09-2003, 06:23 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in my pants
Posts: 227
the oney put it to this is under 100$ and this will improve reliability, so you can run high while safe so to speak.
fd 10k
20b 4k
8 months of working onthe car 5k
having your stuff explode just as you get all happy in your pants form driving your car the first 10 min..... PRICELESS....
fd 10k
20b 4k
8 months of working onthe car 5k
having your stuff explode just as you get all happy in your pants form driving your car the first 10 min..... PRICELESS....
09-09-2003, 08:49 PM
#26
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: jax,fl
Posts: 24
ok i am no ac expert(no of my cars have it) i know the principals and how it works i just get the condenser and evap confused but regardless it works
they tried it in the 60s with r12 but the risk of toxic gas being created it the evap were to leak would pass the gov
i think chrysler was do this
they tried it in the 60s with r12 but the risk of toxic gas being created it the evap were to leak would pass the gov
i think chrysler was do this
09-10-2003, 12:13 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in my pants
Posts: 227
well the thing is you dont have to use a toxic refrigerant. There are safe once. Actually you can use any gas in the world to do this, just make sure your compressoris strong enough to compress it to liquid. Its just that you can do SO much with this. Cool water, int he radiator, cool oil, cool air....
09-10-2003, 02:28 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in my pants
Posts: 227
THEY STOLE MY IDEA!!!!!!!!!! FIENDS!!!!!
....I have thought about doing that when I was like 5..... grrr, oh well, as long as they are implementing this on a market level it means it IS worth it, I am sure they put tons of $$$ in to R&D and for a good reason, and now that they are begging to actually do it means it passed the trials and is proven to be worth the trouble.... or thats the way it seem to me anyway...
....I have thought about doing that when I was like 5..... grrr, oh well, as long as they are implementing this on a market level it means it IS worth it, I am sure they put tons of $$$ in to R&D and for a good reason, and now that they are begging to actually do it means it passed the trials and is proven to be worth the trouble.... or thats the way it seem to me anyway...