Mazda Fesses Up!
08-25-2003, 12:28 AM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 201
so considering the dynoed info, subaru and mitsubishi were "on the mark" with their estimates. while mazda plays the tolerance game... hum.... what if the restrictions were removed? does anyone have any numbers there? I'm assuming there wouldn't be much of a difference, maybe 10 hps at best?
Gesh...though i don't have an 8, i'm still really pisses me off that I've been lied to. first, we have "mazda certified" rotary mechanics that can't do **** (except the few who actually care about the car and not the money) giving us the feeling that mazda has disowned us. and NOW THEY PULL THIS TOLERANCE **** ON US! I feel such disgrace to even call my car a mazda rx7... it should just be rx7 w/o the make.
Gesh...though i don't have an 8, i'm still really pisses me off that I've been lied to. first, we have "mazda certified" rotary mechanics that can't do **** (except the few who actually care about the car and not the money) giving us the feeling that mazda has disowned us. and NOW THEY PULL THIS TOLERANCE **** ON US! I feel such disgrace to even call my car a mazda rx7... it should just be rx7 w/o the make.
08-25-2003, 01:12 AM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sunny South Florida :)
Posts: 1,963
i want to see more rotary powered cars, i want to see a new rx7, i want to see a rotary powered car be competative in lemans again. (and many other races)
I know it's shitty that mazda missed their mark with the 8 powerwise. It still handles very well, everything else they claimed has been somewhat accurate. It does seat 4 people, not as comfortably as a camry, but hell it was never intended to be a camry.
Mazda has been out of the rotary making business for years, and maybe something that they did when they hand made the cars didn't work as well with mass production, or maybe they tried to make it more effiecient by reducing the size of runners, ect. and it had a very bad effect on the hp figures during mass production that they miscalculated. Hell there's a million variables with our motors and if you are conservative with just a couple of them it'll cost you 15-20 hp. (timing, exhast) Hell I saw a rx8 the other day at an autox, and I could barely hear the car running. That's 10-15 hp right there.
My point is mazda fucked up, they fucked up big, but ****, don't hang them yet. They responded pretty quickly to this problem, if you think about it the car has barley been in the states a month (I wonder how long it took ford to own up to their **** up??). I just wish everyone wasn't so negative, so quickly. I say the rx8 owners should take their 500 bucks and replace as much of the exhaust as possible. Remove the cat(if possible), and get a freeer flowing cat back if they are concerned with the #'s, then redyno.
The way I look at it, there are only so many rotary engines on the planet, and if mazda doesn't start making them again, we will all be paying for it before too long. I've already heard rumors of j-spec motors getting very scarce, once they're gone everyone will have to go to rebuilds (not cheap) but some of the housings aren't reusable so the new ones have to come from somewhere. and if they isn't a readily supply of them, the prices will skyrocket for a rebuild, then I go shopping for a different car, cause I'm not rich.
I'm as dissapointed as anyone here I gaurantee it, but I'm not getting into arguments, and screaming from the hilltops about it. I will start screaming if mazda desides to discontinue all rotary powered cars because of their very popular "failure" of an rx8. I just hope we weren't the cause of it.
I know it's shitty that mazda missed their mark with the 8 powerwise. It still handles very well, everything else they claimed has been somewhat accurate. It does seat 4 people, not as comfortably as a camry, but hell it was never intended to be a camry.
Mazda has been out of the rotary making business for years, and maybe something that they did when they hand made the cars didn't work as well with mass production, or maybe they tried to make it more effiecient by reducing the size of runners, ect. and it had a very bad effect on the hp figures during mass production that they miscalculated. Hell there's a million variables with our motors and if you are conservative with just a couple of them it'll cost you 15-20 hp. (timing, exhast) Hell I saw a rx8 the other day at an autox, and I could barely hear the car running. That's 10-15 hp right there.
My point is mazda fucked up, they fucked up big, but ****, don't hang them yet. They responded pretty quickly to this problem, if you think about it the car has barley been in the states a month (I wonder how long it took ford to own up to their **** up??). I just wish everyone wasn't so negative, so quickly. I say the rx8 owners should take their 500 bucks and replace as much of the exhaust as possible. Remove the cat(if possible), and get a freeer flowing cat back if they are concerned with the #'s, then redyno.
The way I look at it, there are only so many rotary engines on the planet, and if mazda doesn't start making them again, we will all be paying for it before too long. I've already heard rumors of j-spec motors getting very scarce, once they're gone everyone will have to go to rebuilds (not cheap) but some of the housings aren't reusable so the new ones have to come from somewhere. and if they isn't a readily supply of them, the prices will skyrocket for a rebuild, then I go shopping for a different car, cause I'm not rich.
I'm as dissapointed as anyone here I gaurantee it, but I'm not getting into arguments, and screaming from the hilltops about it. I will start screaming if mazda desides to discontinue all rotary powered cars because of their very popular "failure" of an rx8. I just hope we weren't the cause of it.
08-25-2003, 01:30 AM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 201
mazdadrifter,
you are absolutely right. I agree with you and that I too want to see more rotary powered vehicles on the street. but I honestly don't think there was a manufacturing error that could've caused such widespread incidences. Calculation error, maybe. But if that's the case, then they should fire all those engineers and find some more competent ones cuz mazda's reputation is on the line! However, from a consumer's standpoint, I wouldn't care where they made the mistake because the final product is not as advertised. So this makes me feel like I've been lied to and feeling like that is sometimes worse than the actual deed. Hence, going back to my previous concern, this mishap will make mazda look untrustworthy at the most or engineers who don't know what they're doing at the least...
The only recourse would be to attempt a redesign and try to produce a reasonable figure compared with what was advertised and to not try brushing it off as if money solves everything. MONEY ISN'T THE ISSUE, it's credibility.
I buy, God forbid, a honda because when I hop into a honda, I know that unless I totally neglected the car, it will not or be very unlikely that it breaks down on me. Mazda needs that kind of reputation because it's so rare to find someone who feels as strongly to their word as to their money.
you are absolutely right. I agree with you and that I too want to see more rotary powered vehicles on the street. but I honestly don't think there was a manufacturing error that could've caused such widespread incidences. Calculation error, maybe. But if that's the case, then they should fire all those engineers and find some more competent ones cuz mazda's reputation is on the line! However, from a consumer's standpoint, I wouldn't care where they made the mistake because the final product is not as advertised. So this makes me feel like I've been lied to and feeling like that is sometimes worse than the actual deed. Hence, going back to my previous concern, this mishap will make mazda look untrustworthy at the most or engineers who don't know what they're doing at the least...
The only recourse would be to attempt a redesign and try to produce a reasonable figure compared with what was advertised and to not try brushing it off as if money solves everything. MONEY ISN'T THE ISSUE, it's credibility.
I buy, God forbid, a honda because when I hop into a honda, I know that unless I totally neglected the car, it will not or be very unlikely that it breaks down on me. Mazda needs that kind of reputation because it's so rare to find someone who feels as strongly to their word as to their money.
08-25-2003, 02:04 AM
#45
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NASA/JSC - Clear Lake, TX
Posts: 870
i'm about to graduate with a mechanical engineering degree from Texas A&M, with work experience designing our own formula race car. i wouldn't mind working for mazda...if only i was japanese
i dont think people buying these cars care that much about HP or the rotary engine. i'm sure if there was a V6 in there, more people would buy it. this is just free publicity (+ or -) for the rotary, a show car if you will. they want a good car that runs well, is fun to drive, and looks hot. money and free service meets more of their concerns than more HP.
we care about HP, that's why we have FC's and FD's with over 200 whp with tuneable boost. we are the ones that would buy the Mazdaspeed 8. we want more power, and if mazda wants to appeal to us (which the of course do), they will give us the more power we want.
back to the topic. yeah, i feel betrayed, and after this came up i thought to myself "why do i even care about the rotary, does it even have a future? why am i wearing this mazdaspeed hat, does it mean anything?" but, i will hope for the better, hope mazda brings back the rx-7, and hope my car makes it till i can buy a new rotary with over 250 REAL - DYNOED hp
i dont think people buying these cars care that much about HP or the rotary engine. i'm sure if there was a V6 in there, more people would buy it. this is just free publicity (+ or -) for the rotary, a show car if you will. they want a good car that runs well, is fun to drive, and looks hot. money and free service meets more of their concerns than more HP.
we care about HP, that's why we have FC's and FD's with over 200 whp with tuneable boost. we are the ones that would buy the Mazdaspeed 8. we want more power, and if mazda wants to appeal to us (which the of course do), they will give us the more power we want.
back to the topic. yeah, i feel betrayed, and after this came up i thought to myself "why do i even care about the rotary, does it even have a future? why am i wearing this mazdaspeed hat, does it mean anything?" but, i will hope for the better, hope mazda brings back the rx-7, and hope my car makes it till i can buy a new rotary with over 250 REAL - DYNOED hp
08-25-2003, 09:50 AM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 3,269
Well every car produced by any car company usually has lower rwhp #'s than what they claimed. That's just a given. But if the RX-8 is only getting 215rwhp and caliming 247rwhp, that's somewhat of a big deal.. And just remember that the RX-8 was never intended to be a hardcore sportscar, I mean hell, I think they barely even got into the sports car line up.. But you know that mazda will create an improved rotary powered vehicle. (hopefully the RX-7) So, be happy for what the RX-8's worth. You know when people start turbocharging the RX-8's they will be a contender.
08-25-2003, 10:40 AM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by Digisan' date='Aug 25 2003, 03:16 AM
You feel betrayed, how do you think I feel, I own an RX-8.
I want the HP, not the money, I will be speaking to Mazda about this, TBC.
I want the HP, not the money, I will be speaking to Mazda about this, TBC.
08-25-2003, 10:43 AM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by Jims5543' date='Aug 24 2003, 11:35 AM
I just started a thread sking the 99 SVT Cobra guys what they did.
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?...648#post3221648
Hopefully we can get some helpful info.
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?...648#post3221648
Hopefully we can get some helpful info.
