Best Water/Meth kit. What is you opinion?
08-10-2007, 08:29 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oakharbor WA
Posts: 199
Thats one way, if you trust that chesey $15.00 pump (I use that method to clean out my N/A from time to time). If you tune for it and it goes out your screwed! Somthing else, big wator drops or a stream hitting the turbo blades when its turning fast will chip metal pices off and pump them thru the engine. You might get away with aiming the stream at the center nut, but its a big risk.
One method I read about was this. The old school drag racers (1950's) used the boost pressure in the intake to power there H2O set ups, the trick was to find or build a nozle that would atomize the water before entiring the turbo, starting at like at 4psi, even then they aimed it at the nut.. It was simple, more boost = more H2O.
I bought a Cooling Mist kit like Z-Beater, one thing they dident tell me till I asked ,after I got it! $#@%&*!!! Is this. THE PUMP'S SIRVICE LIFE IS 100 HOURS. thats not a lot of time if you on boost alot. so eather rig a timer on your throtle or hope to god you replace that $150.00 pump in time.
Honestly i like the boost powerd method, if you have boost you have water.
Do a seach on the net, this info is out there.
One method I read about was this. The old school drag racers (1950's) used the boost pressure in the intake to power there H2O set ups, the trick was to find or build a nozle that would atomize the water before entiring the turbo, starting at like at 4psi, even then they aimed it at the nut.. It was simple, more boost = more H2O.
I bought a Cooling Mist kit like Z-Beater, one thing they dident tell me till I asked ,after I got it! $#@%&*!!! Is this. THE PUMP'S SIRVICE LIFE IS 100 HOURS. thats not a lot of time if you on boost alot. so eather rig a timer on your throtle or hope to god you replace that $150.00 pump in time.
Honestly i like the boost powerd method, if you have boost you have water.
Do a seach on the net, this info is out there.
09-11-2007, 09:02 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 117
there are a number of good kits on the market today... quality has positively evolved over the years...
that said, there are significant differences. the primary AI systems are in no particular order:
Alkycontrol
Aquamist
Coolingmist
Snow performance
SMC
FJO.
i bought my system in march of 06 and have done lots of road tuning and two dyno sessions. i am very happy with it.
one of the key considerations w AI is you it may be one of the systems that is most important to your engine. as such you don't want to approach it w the idea that you can buy one kit over another and save a couple of hundred.
system integrity is THE SINGLE most important ''safeguard."
you need to decide whether you want to run water or alcohol or a mix. i decided 100% alcohol/methanol. then you need to decide what fundamental architecture you want....
AI is evolving. most systems are"progressive" as to delivery and key off boost. my system functions in such a manner. i have it set to start at approx 8 psi. i run two "M10" nozzles. each number is 63 CC/Min so i can inject up to about 1250 CC/MIn which is around 20-25% of my base fuel. so my fuel injectors, instead of being maxxed out run around 65% duty. the balance is methanol.
and if there is a system malfunction.... no meth.... no motor. so you see SYSTEM INTEGRITY is feature ONE.
that means aeroquip lines and dealing w someone who has really done it before. it means a careful installation, etc..
back to systems... so there is progressive and there is cell by cell (CBC).
cell by cell is the ultimate. currently i believe only FJO and Aquamist offer CBC.
as you may know our engines require a bit less fuel after peak torque. if you reach target boost and boost is stable from say 6000 to 8000 you may require less fuel. but the progressive system will deliver a constant amount based on constant boost. if you tune CBC you can match AI delivery w base fuel.
very cool.
this is generally done w a constant pressure pump and a High Speed Valve (HSV). think fuel injector because that's what it is. the AI fuel map that you set up on your laptop is programmed to instruct the HSV. in a couple of years CBC-HSV will be the only system on the market.
expect to pay $500 to 900 for a good system... my Alkycontrol system (progressive) was around $500 and change w custom lengthed AQ lines. it works great. my alcohol triggers within 3 tenths of a psi every time.
AI is magic.
without it you dyno on racegas and make a big number, then turn down the boost to one bar and drive around.
with AI you can run 20+ psi w no knock on pump any time.
howard coleman
that said, there are significant differences. the primary AI systems are in no particular order:
Alkycontrol
Aquamist
Coolingmist
Snow performance
SMC
FJO.
i bought my system in march of 06 and have done lots of road tuning and two dyno sessions. i am very happy with it.
one of the key considerations w AI is you it may be one of the systems that is most important to your engine. as such you don't want to approach it w the idea that you can buy one kit over another and save a couple of hundred.
system integrity is THE SINGLE most important ''safeguard."
you need to decide whether you want to run water or alcohol or a mix. i decided 100% alcohol/methanol. then you need to decide what fundamental architecture you want....
AI is evolving. most systems are"progressive" as to delivery and key off boost. my system functions in such a manner. i have it set to start at approx 8 psi. i run two "M10" nozzles. each number is 63 CC/Min so i can inject up to about 1250 CC/MIn which is around 20-25% of my base fuel. so my fuel injectors, instead of being maxxed out run around 65% duty. the balance is methanol.
and if there is a system malfunction.... no meth.... no motor. so you see SYSTEM INTEGRITY is feature ONE.
that means aeroquip lines and dealing w someone who has really done it before. it means a careful installation, etc..
back to systems... so there is progressive and there is cell by cell (CBC).
cell by cell is the ultimate. currently i believe only FJO and Aquamist offer CBC.
as you may know our engines require a bit less fuel after peak torque. if you reach target boost and boost is stable from say 6000 to 8000 you may require less fuel. but the progressive system will deliver a constant amount based on constant boost. if you tune CBC you can match AI delivery w base fuel.
very cool.
this is generally done w a constant pressure pump and a High Speed Valve (HSV). think fuel injector because that's what it is. the AI fuel map that you set up on your laptop is programmed to instruct the HSV. in a couple of years CBC-HSV will be the only system on the market.
expect to pay $500 to 900 for a good system... my Alkycontrol system (progressive) was around $500 and change w custom lengthed AQ lines. it works great. my alcohol triggers within 3 tenths of a psi every time.
AI is magic.
without it you dyno on racegas and make a big number, then turn down the boost to one bar and drive around.
with AI you can run 20+ psi w no knock on pump any time.
howard coleman
09-15-2007, 01:49 AM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oakharbor WA
Posts: 199
"and if there is a system malfunction.... no meth.... no motor. so you see SYSTEM INTEGRITY is feature ONE."
That was exactly the point I was trying to make on my previous post! If we tune for AI we had better make dam shure its dependable as all hell and do it right.
That's why I like the boost powered setup. An "air brush" type injector (pre turbo) utilizes boost pressure to make a fine fog at low psi with out the pump. Peugeot made a factory AI H2O set up like this for dependability reasons on some production turbo models in the mid 70's.
I havent built one yet tho and will be a guini pig of sorts doing this. I have searched the crap out of the net and done some bench tests. Also talked to a bunch of old timers who ran this type of setup in the 50's-70's on drag cars. It worked for them and was the HOT setup back then.
That was exactly the point I was trying to make on my previous post! If we tune for AI we had better make dam shure its dependable as all hell and do it right.
That's why I like the boost powered setup. An "air brush" type injector (pre turbo) utilizes boost pressure to make a fine fog at low psi with out the pump. Peugeot made a factory AI H2O set up like this for dependability reasons on some production turbo models in the mid 70's.
I havent built one yet tho and will be a guini pig of sorts doing this. I have searched the crap out of the net and done some bench tests. Also talked to a bunch of old timers who ran this type of setup in the 50's-70's on drag cars. It worked for them and was the HOT setup back then.
09-23-2007, 07:40 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oakharbor WA
Posts: 199
http://www.newlanddesign.com/
Now this is what I am talkin about! It needs 100 hours JUST TOO BREAK IN!!! and its fairly small, dosent like high P.S.I so a reg running 1-2 psi is perfect. So use boost to provide the pressure and a reg to keep it at 1-2 P.S.I in the tank. And it is TUNEABLE with voltage! Only bad thing I see is making an intake pipe thats friendly to its desighn. A tll would be a snap as the piping goes virtical after the air box. It sprays 360 degrees and MUST stay upright so this is a chalange. Look at its H2O specs for flow and droplet size. Very impresive!
Now this is what I am talkin about! It needs 100 hours JUST TOO BREAK IN!!! and its fairly small, dosent like high P.S.I so a reg running 1-2 psi is perfect. So use boost to provide the pressure and a reg to keep it at 1-2 P.S.I in the tank. And it is TUNEABLE with voltage! Only bad thing I see is making an intake pipe thats friendly to its desighn. A tll would be a snap as the piping goes virtical after the air box. It sprays 360 degrees and MUST stay upright so this is a chalange. Look at its H2O specs for flow and droplet size. Very impresive!
09-23-2007, 08:29 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oakharbor WA
Posts: 199
This ones for you Z.
http://www.coldfog.com/turbine-cooling--concept.php
I know its somthing off our relm of scale but it applies to us in its dynamics.
http://www.coldfog.com/turbine-cooling--concept.php
I know its somthing off our relm of scale but it applies to us in its dynamics.
01-01-2008, 08:51 AM
#16
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1
The best methanol injection system that I have seen so far was developed by a pair of engineers at AEM, it was copied and used in my current setup.The system uses two methanol compatable 1600cc injectors and is a seperate fuel system using it`s own tank, pump and regulator with all components being methanol compatable. This system allows for control over the flow of methanol that no other system on the market can provide.The AEM secondary injector control uses it`s own map and 35% of the total fuel is methanol under boost.
The intake temps droped from over 150* to below 60* on a 70* day.
The intake temps droped from over 150* to below 60* on a 70* day.
02-04-2008, 09:24 PM
#17
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Amityville, New York
Posts: 12,288
im thinking the fjo kit for my car, I like the software idea.
I dont know too much about any of them, anyone care to tell me why a system might be better then the FJO?
price is not as much an issue, its rather a "set it and forget" it type of thing, I was going to have it come on for high boost only obviously.
I dont know too much about any of them, anyone care to tell me why a system might be better then the FJO?
price is not as much an issue, its rather a "set it and forget" it type of thing, I was going to have it come on for high boost only obviously.
05-30-2010, 04:55 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 10,906
AEM kit is pretty close to plug and play. It is also a nice setup for the price;
http://www.turblown.net/store/index.php?productID=132
http://www.turblown.net/store/index.php?productID=132
07-08-2010, 07:05 PM
#20
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Utopia
Posts: 90
http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm
RRWEP110 The *original* mech WI kit (copied by many!)
I have them running on hundreds of cars all over the world and they are plug and play not PLUG AND PRAY like others
RRWEP110 The *original* mech WI kit (copied by many!)
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