Long Run Costs
05-06-2004, 02:59 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii USA
Posts: 925
20B in an FD is a LOT more work and money versus into an FC.
I don't know who you are or what you background is, but a 400hp at the wheels RX-7 scares the hell out of me. 500rwhp on the street is next to uncontrollable, and 600hp at the wheels can easily kill you in a blink of an eye.
600hp is pretty high strung for a 13B in my book, and I would recommend 20B if you think you can handle 600hp (or more).
Be aware that the increased torque will make the car drive drastically different.
600hp 13B is NOT equal to a 600hp 20B.
A 20B Cosmo fuel pump will NOT support 600hp on either engine.
You're going to need a pretty expensive fuel system to support power levels like that and breaking $1,000 just on the fuel components will not surprise me.
A 20B sucks a LOT more fuel even if the 13B makes the same amount of power.
On average, it's at least a 20% drop in fuel economy for identical driving trips.
A 13B pulling 20mpg will usually mean a 20B producing 15mpg driving the same routes.
Gas prices are on the rise, so I dunno if this will bother you.
A 20B producing 600hp will also produce about 550lb-ft+ of torque - this will break drivetrains parts, so I hope you're willing to face this fact. A 13B producing 600hp, will make about 500lb-ft of torque, and this is on the edge of the drivetrain capacity but may or may not break stuff.
-Ted
I don't know who you are or what you background is, but a 400hp at the wheels RX-7 scares the hell out of me. 500rwhp on the street is next to uncontrollable, and 600hp at the wheels can easily kill you in a blink of an eye.
600hp is pretty high strung for a 13B in my book, and I would recommend 20B if you think you can handle 600hp (or more).
Be aware that the increased torque will make the car drive drastically different.
600hp 13B is NOT equal to a 600hp 20B.
A 20B Cosmo fuel pump will NOT support 600hp on either engine.
You're going to need a pretty expensive fuel system to support power levels like that and breaking $1,000 just on the fuel components will not surprise me.
A 20B sucks a LOT more fuel even if the 13B makes the same amount of power.
On average, it's at least a 20% drop in fuel economy for identical driving trips.
A 13B pulling 20mpg will usually mean a 20B producing 15mpg driving the same routes.
Gas prices are on the rise, so I dunno if this will bother you.
A 20B producing 600hp will also produce about 550lb-ft+ of torque - this will break drivetrains parts, so I hope you're willing to face this fact. A 13B producing 600hp, will make about 500lb-ft of torque, and this is on the edge of the drivetrain capacity but may or may not break stuff.
-Ted
05-06-2004, 03:09 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,547
Originally Posted by RETed' date='May 6 2004, 02:59 PM
20B in an FD is a LOT more work and money versus into an FC.
I don't know who you are or what you background is, but a 400hp at the wheels RX-7 scares the hell out of me. 500rwhp on the street is next to uncontrollable, and 600hp at the wheels can easily kill you in a blink of an eye.
600hp is pretty high strung for a 13B in my book, and I would recommend 20B if you think you can handle 600hp (or more).
Be aware that the increased torque will make the car drive drastically different.
600hp 13B is NOT equal to a 600hp 20B.
A 20B Cosmo fuel pump will NOT support 600hp on either engine.
You're going to need a pretty expensive fuel system to support power levels like that and breaking $1,000 just on the fuel components will not surprise me.
A 20B sucks a LOT more fuel even if the 13B makes the same amount of power.
On average, it's at least a 20% drop in fuel economy for identical driving trips.
A 13B pulling 20mpg will usually mean a 20B producing 15mpg driving the same routes.
Gas prices are on the rise, so I dunno if this will bother you.
A 20B producing 600hp will also produce about 550lb-ft+ of torque - this will break drivetrains parts, so I hope you're willing to face this fact. A 13B producing 600hp, will make about 500lb-ft of torque, and this is on the edge of the drivetrain capacity but may or may not break stuff.
-Ted
I don't know who you are or what you background is, but a 400hp at the wheels RX-7 scares the hell out of me. 500rwhp on the street is next to uncontrollable, and 600hp at the wheels can easily kill you in a blink of an eye.
600hp is pretty high strung for a 13B in my book, and I would recommend 20B if you think you can handle 600hp (or more).
Be aware that the increased torque will make the car drive drastically different.
600hp 13B is NOT equal to a 600hp 20B.
A 20B Cosmo fuel pump will NOT support 600hp on either engine.
You're going to need a pretty expensive fuel system to support power levels like that and breaking $1,000 just on the fuel components will not surprise me.
A 20B sucks a LOT more fuel even if the 13B makes the same amount of power.
On average, it's at least a 20% drop in fuel economy for identical driving trips.
A 13B pulling 20mpg will usually mean a 20B producing 15mpg driving the same routes.
Gas prices are on the rise, so I dunno if this will bother you.
A 20B producing 600hp will also produce about 550lb-ft+ of torque - this will break drivetrains parts, so I hope you're willing to face this fact. A 13B producing 600hp, will make about 500lb-ft of torque, and this is on the edge of the drivetrain capacity but may or may not break stuff.
-Ted
Plus, I don't know if you've ever driven a synchroless tranny, but it's not much fun when you miss a shift or forget to rev-match LOL.
05-06-2004, 07:43 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: lousy anna
Posts: 565
WOW....um...yeah! a dog box...aka the guru tranny... is the same as a normal syncromesh gear box minus the syncros. it has dog teeth that grab and change the shaft speeds instead of the syncro rings gradually changing speeds. you still have a clutch. and you still should use it. you don't "have" to because the dogbox is much stronger, but you still should. and when you shift gears with a dog box you have to do it fast or you will tear up the teeth. and it'll make horrible noises on the street that will turn heads...ppl will look at you like you are ripping you tranny apart.
Eyxom i'd get the 20b. i thought about it alot before i started my buildup, but didn't think i'd have the cash. BUT now that i've spent 17K on a 13b-re i wish i woulda went ahead with the 20b for about the same price. whats a few grand when yo've spent as much as me and still don't have a running car. Basically do what you really want to do but realize it'll cost more than 6k. 500rwhp takes alot of $$$ to make as safe and reliable as possible.
good luck
Eyxom i'd get the 20b. i thought about it alot before i started my buildup, but didn't think i'd have the cash. BUT now that i've spent 17K on a 13b-re i wish i woulda went ahead with the 20b for about the same price. whats a few grand when yo've spent as much as me and still don't have a running car. Basically do what you really want to do but realize it'll cost more than 6k. 500rwhp takes alot of $$$ to make as safe and reliable as possible.
good luck