It's the official Nopistons.com Dirtbag Presidency Face Off
09-06-2008, 05:40 PM
#31
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,016
You mention your huge debt, if you throw another Bush in office the problem will just continue...because that's how I see McCain. I want Bill Clinton back in office and his cigar as 2nd in command.
09-07-2008, 12:06 PM
#33
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stuart, FL
Posts: 24,416
Oh but you are mistaken, let's go back to his senate campaign to really see when he was first bought and where his debts are owed.
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/sum...p?cid=N00009638
Goldman Sachs $689,280
University of California $531,070
JPMorgan Chase & Co $449,671
Citigroup Inc $411,504
Harvard University $407,452
Goldman, jp morgan, citigroup? Unions huh?
Now we'll go the presidential run:
This table lists the top donors to this candidate in the 2008 election cycle. The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib....p;cid=N00009638
Goldman Sachs $653,030
University of California $576,839
JPMorgan Chase & Co $414,760
Citigroup Inc $408,299
Harvard University $407,219
Google Inc $404,191
UBS AG $389,294
Lehman Brothers $361,482
National Amusements Inc $360,703
Moveon.org $347,463
Sidley Austin LLP $329,776
Microsoft Corp $326,847
Skadden, Arps et al $320,550
Morgan Stanley $307,221
Time Warner $305,538
WilmerHale $275,132
Jones Day $272,755
Latham & Watkins $270,595
University of Chicago $268,285
Stanford University
Loyalties lie with unions?
As far as the auto industry you can thank Bill Clinton and NAFTA for that and completely incompetent management of the companies.
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/sum...p?cid=N00009638
Goldman Sachs $689,280
University of California $531,070
JPMorgan Chase & Co $449,671
Citigroup Inc $411,504
Harvard University $407,452
Goldman, jp morgan, citigroup? Unions huh?
Now we'll go the presidential run:
This table lists the top donors to this candidate in the 2008 election cycle. The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib....p;cid=N00009638
Goldman Sachs $653,030
University of California $576,839
JPMorgan Chase & Co $414,760
Citigroup Inc $408,299
Harvard University $407,219
Google Inc $404,191
UBS AG $389,294
Lehman Brothers $361,482
National Amusements Inc $360,703
Moveon.org $347,463
Sidley Austin LLP $329,776
Microsoft Corp $326,847
Skadden, Arps et al $320,550
Morgan Stanley $307,221
Time Warner $305,538
WilmerHale $275,132
Jones Day $272,755
Latham & Watkins $270,595
University of Chicago $268,285
Stanford University
Loyalties lie with unions?
As far as the auto industry you can thank Bill Clinton and NAFTA for that and completely incompetent management of the companies.
09-07-2008, 01:45 PM
#34
Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: VA
Posts: 2,532
Well, I suppose it's all in where you find your facts.
http://nwitimes.com/articles/2008/08/31/bu...4b400546300.txt
"Of all the political action committee donations made to the Obama campaign, 89.3 percent were from unions."
And you can't seriously consider liberal institutions of higher learning to be a "business"?
http://nwitimes.com/articles/2008/08/31/bu...4b400546300.txt
"Of all the political action committee donations made to the Obama campaign, 89.3 percent were from unions."
And you can't seriously consider liberal institutions of higher learning to be a "business"?
09-07-2008, 02:08 PM
#35
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stuart, FL
Posts: 24,416
I wasn't aware the Rockafellers were a liberal institution.
I guess we'll see, but if you think Obama is going to owe his debts to labor, you're going to be pleasantly surprised, there's reasons people like Uncle Warren are backing Obama and it isn't because of "pro labor" outlook.
I'd even go as far as saying "political action committees" is a pretty narrow scope, banks and big business aren't in that category, bend the statistics how you want, the fact is he's taken a shitload of money from wallstreet.
Ooh, ooh, lets bend them to say other things "of all the financial sector donations, obama took the most from banks" gee, that's crazy.
I guess we'll see, but if you think Obama is going to owe his debts to labor, you're going to be pleasantly surprised, there's reasons people like Uncle Warren are backing Obama and it isn't because of "pro labor" outlook.
I'd even go as far as saying "political action committees" is a pretty narrow scope, banks and big business aren't in that category, bend the statistics how you want, the fact is he's taken a shitload of money from wallstreet.
Ooh, ooh, lets bend them to say other things "of all the financial sector donations, obama took the most from banks" gee, that's crazy.
09-07-2008, 02:35 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jensen Beach, FL / Sylva, NC
Posts: 2,934
O.K. Forget the Bitch that loves Jesus for a minute:
How about what is going to happen to business in America once Obama gets in office?
I have 2 friends that own businesses and PROVIDE JOBS that are making plans right now to move out of the USA if Obama is elected. Fortunately they have the ability to do so and have opportunity outside the USA to make a good living.
American corporations and small business owners are already taxed to death and Obama wants to tax them some more so he can provide all the lazy people with more "programs" to help them be lazy.
As I have said before like a broken record we are on the verge of a hard recession maybe a depression and making big changes will guarantee that.
Taxes the hell out of those who are trying is not the solution but will compound the problem.
Why are we in such a mess? Is it the deficit? MAYBE is the stupid people in this country. That is why we are where we are right now, not the government.
Freddie and Fanny are about to collapse, like I said they would months ago. Who's fault is this? Government? No its their fault and the peoples for borrowing irresponsibly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/06/b...&...amp;oref=slogin
Does anyone realize if Freddie (FRE) and Fanny (FNM) collapse there are no mortgages to get? None, you will no longer be able to buy a home unless its cash only or pay huge interest rates.
Quote:
The background is:
- FNM and FRE are nearly the only lenders left in the housing market. If FNM and FRE cease lending, there will effectively be no more new mortgages (or at least none at anything like current rates) meaning the housing market collapses. Not declines, as we've been seeing, but actually collapses.
- The agencies are technically near insolvent (as in, assets less than liabilities, at market values) so they have to raise new capital, probably $10-20BN each. No equity investor has been willing to inject capital into either, due to the risk of being wiped out by a subsequent govt seizure (as indeed is happening).
- FNM and FRE combined have big debt maturities this year (I think $100s of BNs), and they must continually sell new debt or default on the maturing debt. Investors are rapidly losing their appetite for buying FMN or FRE debt. Foreign govts have become big net sellers of the debt. The agencies have been managing to sell debt to private investors only through desperate arrangements like swapping new debt for old debt (i.e. no net buying).
- Foreign govts, US and foreign banks, pension funds, mutual funds, all hold $ trillions of agency debt. If FNM or FRE default, that would likely drive numerous banks to insolvency, wipe out many retirement savings, cause money market funds to break the buck
, and - worst case - trigger a buyers' strike for US Treasuries.
So, this is a crisis and the govt is resorting to desperate measures. It is not BSC, it is 10X or 100X more of a crisis than BSC. And there is no private entity big enough to step up and do what JPM did with BSC. If the govt doesn't act, it is Great Depression, Act 2.
Obama wants it to fail ,that will teach them, let them rich folk sort it out it does not affect the welfare state.
McCain wants to prop it up and start transferring the power away from them this way middle america is not crushed.
Like I have said over and over, everyone is oblivious to how close to a depression we are. I am afraid Obama is going to ensure we go into one.
How about what is going to happen to business in America once Obama gets in office?
I have 2 friends that own businesses and PROVIDE JOBS that are making plans right now to move out of the USA if Obama is elected. Fortunately they have the ability to do so and have opportunity outside the USA to make a good living.
American corporations and small business owners are already taxed to death and Obama wants to tax them some more so he can provide all the lazy people with more "programs" to help them be lazy.
As I have said before like a broken record we are on the verge of a hard recession maybe a depression and making big changes will guarantee that.
Taxes the hell out of those who are trying is not the solution but will compound the problem.
Why are we in such a mess? Is it the deficit? MAYBE is the stupid people in this country. That is why we are where we are right now, not the government.
Freddie and Fanny are about to collapse, like I said they would months ago. Who's fault is this? Government? No its their fault and the peoples for borrowing irresponsibly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/06/b...&...amp;oref=slogin
Does anyone realize if Freddie (FRE) and Fanny (FNM) collapse there are no mortgages to get? None, you will no longer be able to buy a home unless its cash only or pay huge interest rates.
Quote:
Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee for president, has said his goal is to make the companies "go away" and to push for regulation that "limits their ability to borrow, shrinks their size until they are no longer a threat to our economy and privatizes and eliminates their links to the government." Sen. McCain supported giving Treasury the authority to backstop the firms but has said any use of taxpayer funds should be combined with an ouster of management and a ban on lobbying by the companies.
Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic nominee, has said the companies are a "weird blend" and that "if these are public entities, then they've got to get out of the profit-making business, and if they're private entities, then we don't bail them out."
Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic nominee, has said the companies are a "weird blend" and that "if these are public entities, then they've got to get out of the profit-making business, and if they're private entities, then we don't bail them out."
The background is:
- FNM and FRE are nearly the only lenders left in the housing market. If FNM and FRE cease lending, there will effectively be no more new mortgages (or at least none at anything like current rates) meaning the housing market collapses. Not declines, as we've been seeing, but actually collapses.
- The agencies are technically near insolvent (as in, assets less than liabilities, at market values) so they have to raise new capital, probably $10-20BN each. No equity investor has been willing to inject capital into either, due to the risk of being wiped out by a subsequent govt seizure (as indeed is happening).
- FNM and FRE combined have big debt maturities this year (I think $100s of BNs), and they must continually sell new debt or default on the maturing debt. Investors are rapidly losing their appetite for buying FMN or FRE debt. Foreign govts have become big net sellers of the debt. The agencies have been managing to sell debt to private investors only through desperate arrangements like swapping new debt for old debt (i.e. no net buying).
- Foreign govts, US and foreign banks, pension funds, mutual funds, all hold $ trillions of agency debt. If FNM or FRE default, that would likely drive numerous banks to insolvency, wipe out many retirement savings, cause money market funds to break the buck
, and - worst case - trigger a buyers' strike for US Treasuries.
So, this is a crisis and the govt is resorting to desperate measures. It is not BSC, it is 10X or 100X more of a crisis than BSC. And there is no private entity big enough to step up and do what JPM did with BSC. If the govt doesn't act, it is Great Depression, Act 2.
Obama wants it to fail ,that will teach them, let them rich folk sort it out it does not affect the welfare state.
McCain wants to prop it up and start transferring the power away from them this way middle america is not crushed.
Like I have said over and over, everyone is oblivious to how close to a depression we are. I am afraid Obama is going to ensure we go into one.
09-07-2008, 02:57 PM
#38
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stuart, FL
Posts: 24,416
cancel nafta, tax imports and start forcing corporations that sell things in the us to produce things in the us just like the EU Nations
If you think either one is going to fix the economy you are way off, McCain's got less experience then Bush does when it comes to the economy.
Each US citizen owes $33,000 to the national debt, taking FNM and FRE over added effectively 50% more to the national debt, that's almost $50,000 per us citizen, tell me how we can pay this debt off if we continue to spread our US style democracy all over the wold? Tell me how we can pay off this debt without diluting the dollar.
OK obama is going to tax the **** out of you and McCain will mean rampant inflation, what's the difference? Inflation is a tax.
You want your cake and to eat it too, you want to reap the rewards of this great nation, but do nothing to keep it going. Who buys your goods, your services? Mexico? China? The reality is you made your wealth off of this great nation and it's in a mess of ****, maybe it's time to step up?
Move your company out of the US, it doesn't ******* matter, we build nothing here, our wealth is leaving the country faster then they made it, americans will have NO money to buy anything from anyone, so you can't tax them, you can't move your business to mexico and sell to the us, this is a false system, the money is made out of thin air from bonds sold to China and other foreign banks, they aren't going to buy our paper anymore.
You admit on one hand their will be a depression, then you say "business this, business that" it means nothing, you don't have business during a depression, no one has money, what money they do have is useless. The coin your tossing into the air isnt heads on both sides, depression means all these companies making crap in China have no nation to sell it too, depression means your friends moving out of the country will be making a product with no demand.
I'd call the people leaving this nation because it's time to rebuild it, through any means possible, the people leaving that have reaped the rewards of this nation traitors, traitors for taking everything and giving nothing back and I can't wait for those worthless fiat dollars they're hording in their foreign factory to be USELESS.
It's like running up your credit card and moving to mexico and expecting someone else to pay it for you.
What sickens me the most about this election is I actually see people supporting one of these two criminals, it's disgusting.
If you think either one is going to fix the economy you are way off, McCain's got less experience then Bush does when it comes to the economy.
Each US citizen owes $33,000 to the national debt, taking FNM and FRE over added effectively 50% more to the national debt, that's almost $50,000 per us citizen, tell me how we can pay this debt off if we continue to spread our US style democracy all over the wold? Tell me how we can pay off this debt without diluting the dollar.
OK obama is going to tax the **** out of you and McCain will mean rampant inflation, what's the difference? Inflation is a tax.
You want your cake and to eat it too, you want to reap the rewards of this great nation, but do nothing to keep it going. Who buys your goods, your services? Mexico? China? The reality is you made your wealth off of this great nation and it's in a mess of ****, maybe it's time to step up?
Move your company out of the US, it doesn't ******* matter, we build nothing here, our wealth is leaving the country faster then they made it, americans will have NO money to buy anything from anyone, so you can't tax them, you can't move your business to mexico and sell to the us, this is a false system, the money is made out of thin air from bonds sold to China and other foreign banks, they aren't going to buy our paper anymore.
You admit on one hand their will be a depression, then you say "business this, business that" it means nothing, you don't have business during a depression, no one has money, what money they do have is useless. The coin your tossing into the air isnt heads on both sides, depression means all these companies making crap in China have no nation to sell it too, depression means your friends moving out of the country will be making a product with no demand.
I'd call the people leaving this nation because it's time to rebuild it, through any means possible, the people leaving that have reaped the rewards of this nation traitors, traitors for taking everything and giving nothing back and I can't wait for those worthless fiat dollars they're hording in their foreign factory to be USELESS.
It's like running up your credit card and moving to mexico and expecting someone else to pay it for you.
What sickens me the most about this election is I actually see people supporting one of these two criminals, it's disgusting.
09-07-2008, 04:04 PM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jensen Beach, FL / Sylva, NC
Posts: 2,934
Its more of a who is going to hurt us less.
If Obama get in mark my words, in 2-3 years these will be considered the good ol days. That house your trying to sell will be worth 50-70K.
Change is not good, when the current moron was elected into office 4 years ago I said this nation would be in a slump before he got out of office. He had already done a good job screwing it up the 1st four years. I knew the next 4, without him needed to be re-elected would make the 1st 4 look good times.
Our national debt is huge I know that, how are we going to get out of it? I hope your patriotic enough to ride this storm out because if we are going to change this its going to take a good 10 years of really bad times to get back on top.
The problem is they are spending too much, too much on a stupid war with the wrong country, too much on "stimulus" checks, too much padding each other well before they high tail it out of there.
So which idiot is better? As demonstrated above one wants us all to go to hell with our "rich people" problems the other wants to try a gentle way to fix the problem. If you cannot comprehend that from above then yes, Obama is your man.
But if you see what I was getting at you realize that this all needs to be fixed gently, if it is not this country will topple. I am ready and I have no one to turn to for money when I get into a pinch, I have saved up a bunch, gotten rid of the toys and I am selling off the assets to all I need to get by each month is enough for utilities.
Meanwhile our country is #1!!
#1 in taxing corporations in the world and Obama wants to make the taxes higher.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa53...11/ai_n21385539
Yup we are dancing a fine line. Many companies are leaving because they cannot afford to do business in America anymore and turn a profit. Watch the mass exodus if Obama does what he wants to do.
Get ready for a LOT more of this as well as jobs dry up and companies leave.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...0,3121791.story
If Obama get in mark my words, in 2-3 years these will be considered the good ol days. That house your trying to sell will be worth 50-70K.
Change is not good, when the current moron was elected into office 4 years ago I said this nation would be in a slump before he got out of office. He had already done a good job screwing it up the 1st four years. I knew the next 4, without him needed to be re-elected would make the 1st 4 look good times.
Our national debt is huge I know that, how are we going to get out of it? I hope your patriotic enough to ride this storm out because if we are going to change this its going to take a good 10 years of really bad times to get back on top.
The problem is they are spending too much, too much on a stupid war with the wrong country, too much on "stimulus" checks, too much padding each other well before they high tail it out of there.
So which idiot is better? As demonstrated above one wants us all to go to hell with our "rich people" problems the other wants to try a gentle way to fix the problem. If you cannot comprehend that from above then yes, Obama is your man.
But if you see what I was getting at you realize that this all needs to be fixed gently, if it is not this country will topple. I am ready and I have no one to turn to for money when I get into a pinch, I have saved up a bunch, gotten rid of the toys and I am selling off the assets to all I need to get by each month is enough for utilities.
Meanwhile our country is #1!!
#1 in taxing corporations in the world and Obama wants to make the taxes higher.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa53...11/ai_n21385539
One of the ironies of tax policy during the Bush presidency is that five years of tax-cutting legislation have left the corporate income tax rate unchanged. Meanwhile, another wave of corporate income tax reduction has swept around the world and is still underway. The United States is not the leader this time around. In fact, the U.S. is lagging behind and now has the highest combined statutory corporate income tax rate among OECD countries.
A review of corporate tax policies in the OECD countries reinforces a theme that is well developed in the economic literature: a nation will not attract new and expanded business and its attendant job creation if its corporate income tax is significantly higher than it is in comparable nations. Therefore, as the U.S. contemplates fundamental tax reform, one of the major goals should be a lower corporate income tax rate.
A review of corporate tax policies in the OECD countries reinforces a theme that is well developed in the economic literature: a nation will not attract new and expanded business and its attendant job creation if its corporate income tax is significantly higher than it is in comparable nations. Therefore, as the U.S. contemplates fundamental tax reform, one of the major goals should be a lower corporate income tax rate.
Yup we are dancing a fine line. Many companies are leaving because they cannot afford to do business in America anymore and turn a profit. Watch the mass exodus if Obama does what he wants to do.
Get ready for a LOT more of this as well as jobs dry up and companies leave.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...0,3121791.story
WASHINGTON -- The economy shoved its way to the front of the presidential campaign once again, as the nation's jobless rate shot to a five-year high -- escalating fears that the country is spiraling into a full recession.
09-07-2008, 06:05 PM
#40
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stuart, FL
Posts: 24,416
See you are approaching this conversation as if I am supporting Obama and you couldn't be further from the truth. That aside, I'm going to make the leap and assume you just missed my question.
These companies move out of the US, which is a mostly service related nation at this point, very little manufacturing... as they do we see even further job loss and as you've already admitted there is potential for another depression, no matter who gets in office. So on to my question, they move to let's say Mexico and the jobs dry up, who buys the goods? You see you've bent over a dollar to pick up a quarter, when the rest of them leave there's no one to buy their product their services.
Do you know anything about the first depression? Do you know what the "New Deal" did? Do you know how we arrived a financial crisis the first time? Do you know what is different from the first depression to economic hardships we face now?
Answer those questions and we'll talk, if you grasp on Wall Street is newspapers and tv stations then you my friend have no idea what is actually taking place right now, you're eating the apple pie they serve you and are convinced it's cherry because that's what they told you.
These companies move out of the US, which is a mostly service related nation at this point, very little manufacturing... as they do we see even further job loss and as you've already admitted there is potential for another depression, no matter who gets in office. So on to my question, they move to let's say Mexico and the jobs dry up, who buys the goods? You see you've bent over a dollar to pick up a quarter, when the rest of them leave there's no one to buy their product their services.
Do you know anything about the first depression? Do you know what the "New Deal" did? Do you know how we arrived a financial crisis the first time? Do you know what is different from the first depression to economic hardships we face now?
Answer those questions and we'll talk, if you grasp on Wall Street is newspapers and tv stations then you my friend have no idea what is actually taking place right now, you're eating the apple pie they serve you and are convinced it's cherry because that's what they told you.