phinsup

You are no better, that's my point. Your enlightened "world centric" view has brought up very little that isn't in regards to the US. The very article you used to support your statements is Americentric, far more so than any statements I have made.



You make broad assumptions about me personally based on very limited fact, but that appears to be your MO, what you can't refute with fact you refute with pigeon holing. The reality is and i've said it before, the documents I read pertain to the US, unlike you I don't speak of what I haven't read and don't know. That apparently makes you more world centric. Again, you live in Canada, I'm sure you'll deny it, but a great deal of the news you read and the topics you discuss relate to Canada, why? Because that's where you live, that's what should concern you the most.



Like I said previously there is absolutely no way I can win. If I said something negative about another nations foreign or domestic policy you would say "Typical American, thinks he has the right to comment on every other nations dealings, but doesn't even look at the things his own country does" if i say something negative about the US, well then it's "typical american, he doesn't think about the rest of the world."



Anyhow, this isn't much of an argument. You never address anything I say, you brush me aside because I'm american, it doesn't matter what I say you are quickly able to discount it as oh he's an american.



Again a broad assumption about me that isn't true. So you can prove that I never mentioned or read wikileaks prior to this issue? I know you can't cause it isn't true. I first started reading wikileaks a couple years back when they released a bunch of documents from 9/11. again that still make me americentric as I can't read anything in regards to the US or comment on it without being americentric.



I assume you never criticize the canadian gov't? You only criticize foreign gov't? because if you were to ever criticize the canadian gov't and hold yourself to the same standard you would be Candiacentric, the very act of doing so or even discussing your gov't in general makes you only concerned about Canada, in fact if you even mention the issues in Canada, you've walled yourself in, you are only concerned about Canada.



Again, prior to calling me americentric you never brought one fact to the discussion in regards to how anything effected other nations, you still haven't LOL you just keep pointing the finger at me. If you are so concerned about the other nations security, policy etc.... bring some of it to light, let's discuss it. Let's discuss the items in the documents that have no mention of the US



So here's your opportunity, you tell me. What issues in the documents should I be discussing? What documents should I read from the wikileaks website?

phinsup

This I assume is the post you feel was "americentric".

Quote:

i've read through a great deal of the documents and seen nothing that would put anyone's "life at risk" the only place I have heard that from is the feds themselves in an effort to label assange as a terrorist.



What I have learned is what most americans should already know. Our diplomatic policy and foreign relations is absolutely deplorable and our (the US) gov't is and should be held responsible for the "blowback" we as a nation have suffered through due to their horrible international hijinks.



These are the very consequences and blowback that Ron Paul and Chalmers Johnson have spoken at length about. There are consequences for our actions abroad, we've just never recognized them as such.



Most of the people I hear discussing the issue haven't done much reading, they've let the media spoon feed them the version that fits what they want to hear.

You would have to be totally ******* blind to not realize that the vast majority of the documents that have brought this whole thing to the worlds attention are in regards to the US and therefor it would be nearly impossible to discuss the topic without the large majority of the discussion involving the US. As you proved quite well with your link, the rest of the world is discussing america's deplorable foreign policy and the ramifications of it. You can read the guardian and a plethora of other foreign news sources to quickly realize that. I'm having the same discussion the rest of the world is, I am however forced to discuss as a citizen of the nation in the hot seat.



As a matter of fact I was just discussing wikileaks with an Iranian friend of mine, actually he lives in australia and was exiled from Iran at a young age. Anyhow of course the discussion revolved mostly around the terrible light that it paints the US foreign policy. Now I know what you are thinking, me being americentric steered the conversation in that direction. Yea that would be a safe assumption in some cases, but anyone who knows Babak knows you aren't gonna "steer" any conversation you have with him, he's the driver! My point is, it would be completely impossible to discuss the topic at hand without discussing american foreign policy, end of story. The leaks themselves are from US embacy cables, how pray tell do you discuss US embacy cables without discussing the US foreign policy? lol The cables themselves provide for the most part only a US perspective, even the light it sheds on foreign nations is in reality a direct product of US foreign policy.



My neighbor is dutch, the guy across from him German (the germans LOVE to talk politics). I spent a lot of time with a lot of folks who have traveled the world, who come from other countries, a close friend from Scotland, I talk to friends from costa rica and argentina on a weekly basis and talk to friends from norway even more often then that and while usually we talk about much more than US politics when we are discussing politics, since this wikileaks story has broken, the discussion at hand has been the picture it's painted about the US gov't, it's undeniable fact that a great deal of the world is now discussing the US's foreign policy and have discussed it LONG before the wikileaks documents, even here on this forum.

Quote:

What I have learned is what most americans should already know. Our diplomatic policy and foreign relations is absolutely deplorable and our gov't is and should be held responsible for the "blowback" we as a nation have suffered through due to their horrible international hijinks.

You wouldn't label a person from any other nation who made that statement as Americentric, you would agree with them and say "yea i've seen the damage their horrible foreign policy has done" or something to that effect, but because I am discussing the current topic being discussed all over the world you discount what I say as Americentric.



One would think that someone with such a worldcentric view would try to enlighten the mindless masses with the true story, what the wikileaks discussion should really be about, but you've made no effort to do so. you've simply stated, not proved your views of the issue as being more worldly, not because you've brought facts to the discussion or because you've outlined a more worldly view of the issue... no your view is simply more worldly because you are canadian and because I american. So inform me, what's the topic that americans should be discussing in regards to these documents. What should I be discussing with my foreign friends? Foreign media is printing essentially the same article the US media is. Maybe the reality is not that I'm "Americentric" but that you are far more worldly then myself and the rest of the world. I'm going along with the rest of the world and discussing the wrong things, enlighten me, show me the way. You haven't provided any insight with your worldly perspective. Instead, I'm forced to take your word for the fact that you have a far greater grasp on the world as a whole, on the topic at hand as a whole.

phinsup

From the guardian, http://www.guardian....bles-key-points



Follow the link, pretty much EVERY bullet is in relation to us foreign policy in some form, this is a foreign paper. Each day out of several bullets it's difficult to find any of them in regards to the documents that doesn't have some reflection on us foreign policy, this goes on and on all discussing us foreign policy. Their saying the same things I did LOL If the details they are outlining aren't with the intention of painting a horrible US foreign policy then what conclusion do you draw from them. Out of the literally hundreds of thousands of documents, the best you were able to dig up was an article that mentions the effect on what, one other nation? Venezuela is the only nation mentioned on it's own merit in the article you linked, everything else relates in a very direct way to US foreign policy. Apparently the entire world is discussing the wrong topic, since an "Americentric" view can logically only be held by an American, what is these other peoples issue? Are they just stupid? Uninformed? Why are they discussing and making essentially the same statements as me?

phinsup

Thanks Ron Paul, looks like I'm in good company



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywoIn...layer_embedded