Help ! I'm Getting Fu*cked Over
06-03-2003, 03:06 PM
#21
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: PA Pittsburgh
Posts: 575
No it's not the shop, they are just going allong my dad forms all this **** based on what he knows and what he THINKS he knows. Which is of course nothing.
06-03-2003, 03:06 PM
#22
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: PA Pittsburgh
Posts: 575
If you woudl do me the huge favor or writing up every possable reason to not put twins on it then post that i will print it and let him read it. That woudl be great
06-03-2003, 03:46 PM
#23
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,550
Reasons why you should not keep the stock twins and should use the To4e turbo kit...
First I'd like you to understand that a rotary engine is nothing like a piston engine. A piston engine can absorb and take some knocking with out breaking. Any kind of predetonation will kill a rotary engine. Even one knock will break an apex seal and necessitate a complete overhaul usually costing around 4k or more. I'd like you to read below as I explain some of the reasons why you shouldn't put the stock twins back on this car.
The stock turbo's create too much backpressure that can cause hot spots and predetonation.
They are a huge mass of cast iron that can cause heat soak that can also cause hot spots and predetonation.
Since there are 2 turbo's there is 2 times the possibility of one of them breaking or going to ****
The twin turbo's use several solenoids and many vacuum lines to control boost and the sequential transition, if they fail it can over boost and blow the engine. It is also very difficult to trouble shoot any problems that will come up due to the complex system.
The stock twin turbo's flow the same amount of air as a To4E so it makes no difference that you are putting them back on the car for the purpose of making less power.
People all over the world put To4e's on their cars for the sol purpose of making the car more reliable at the stock power levels. If they were going for high hp they would never even consider such a small turbo.
If a To4E turbo wears out it costs $100 for an overhaul kit
If the stock twins wear out good luck on finding a good used set for less than $500-1000 and be prepared to pay more if you want to overhaul them.
It is easy to pull and fix a To4E, The stock turbo's are hell to remove and it will cost more to have them replaced.
The stock twin manifold is prone to cracking due to heat soak and back pressure this will cause exhaust leaks and require removal of the entire turbo set up to fix and be very costly.
If the to4e manifold cracks you weld the crack and your done
A To4E is a small turbo; it is not even considered a performance turbo on an RX-7. It is however a very good reliability upgrade that can produce the same power as the stock turbo's and dramatically increase the life of the engine while maintaining excellent drivability while keeping the engine simple. The stock twin turbo system involving 3 actuators, 2 solenoids and a dozen or so vacuum lines a very prone to failure, especially on a car that is going on 10 years. I run a shop in Japan dedicated to building these cars and engines and I have been doing this now for over 5 years and I have a great deal of experience working on these cars. The idea of putting on the stock twin turbo's when you have a To4E kit is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The To4E turbo will not make more power than the stock twin system, it will make the same power and increase the life of the engine and decrease the cost maintenance by a group. I strongly suggest you DON'T do what you are about to do and that you listen to reason..
First I'd like you to understand that a rotary engine is nothing like a piston engine. A piston engine can absorb and take some knocking with out breaking. Any kind of predetonation will kill a rotary engine. Even one knock will break an apex seal and necessitate a complete overhaul usually costing around 4k or more. I'd like you to read below as I explain some of the reasons why you shouldn't put the stock twins back on this car.
The stock turbo's create too much backpressure that can cause hot spots and predetonation.
They are a huge mass of cast iron that can cause heat soak that can also cause hot spots and predetonation.
Since there are 2 turbo's there is 2 times the possibility of one of them breaking or going to ****
The twin turbo's use several solenoids and many vacuum lines to control boost and the sequential transition, if they fail it can over boost and blow the engine. It is also very difficult to trouble shoot any problems that will come up due to the complex system.
The stock twin turbo's flow the same amount of air as a To4E so it makes no difference that you are putting them back on the car for the purpose of making less power.
People all over the world put To4e's on their cars for the sol purpose of making the car more reliable at the stock power levels. If they were going for high hp they would never even consider such a small turbo.
If a To4E turbo wears out it costs $100 for an overhaul kit
If the stock twins wear out good luck on finding a good used set for less than $500-1000 and be prepared to pay more if you want to overhaul them.
It is easy to pull and fix a To4E, The stock turbo's are hell to remove and it will cost more to have them replaced.
The stock twin manifold is prone to cracking due to heat soak and back pressure this will cause exhaust leaks and require removal of the entire turbo set up to fix and be very costly.
If the to4e manifold cracks you weld the crack and your done
A To4E is a small turbo; it is not even considered a performance turbo on an RX-7. It is however a very good reliability upgrade that can produce the same power as the stock turbo's and dramatically increase the life of the engine while maintaining excellent drivability while keeping the engine simple. The stock twin turbo system involving 3 actuators, 2 solenoids and a dozen or so vacuum lines a very prone to failure, especially on a car that is going on 10 years. I run a shop in Japan dedicated to building these cars and engines and I have been doing this now for over 5 years and I have a great deal of experience working on these cars. The idea of putting on the stock twin turbo's when you have a To4E kit is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The To4E turbo will not make more power than the stock twin system, it will make the same power and increase the life of the engine and decrease the cost maintenance by a group. I strongly suggest you DON'T do what you are about to do and that you listen to reason..
06-03-2003, 04:17 PM
#24
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Posts: 9,725
Damn ya sold me on a single Dragon 
Hey Kid, not for nothing but if your old man doesnt agree, sell me your to4
Hey Kid, not for nothing but if your old man doesnt agree, sell me your to4
06-03-2003, 05:24 PM
#25
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: PA Pittsburgh
Posts: 575
Well the T04E is goin as a trade for the twins if he does it. Aint that some ****. And i showed em the letter dragon thanks for the help. I'm wondering if the shop really has somthing to do with this now. It seems any good mech would never do that. Try to IM me again too i'd like to talk. Also what shoudl i say to the guys up at the shop other then what you wrote? Thanks for the help my dad siad he is goin to talk to the owner of the shop tommorrow then i'll see how really fucked up this situation really is.
06-03-2003, 06:15 PM
#26
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Posts: 9,725
I have a set of 99 spec twins with 5k on them if your interested in a trade.
06-03-2003, 06:54 PM
#27
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: PA Pittsburgh
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Hell No i want my T04E. Get this the guy at the shop is claiming that the twins will have better drive ability. Haha what a joke. They both spool at 3k am i right dragon?
06-03-2003, 07:00 PM
#28
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: i move around alot i'm 98 years old
Posts: 354
they guy at the shop is gay... and if your dad is worried about you going to fast, than the T04E would be even better. the shop says the twins spool faster, which means that you have lag of the T04e.... which in turn means you can't boost as soon, which means your car is more slow. Pefect drivabilty for what your dad wants you to have.. nice and slow....
but yea i think the t04e should spool up just as quick as the twins... whats the AR on it?
but yea i think the t04e should spool up just as quick as the twins... whats the AR on it?
06-03-2003, 07:02 PM
#29
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: O.C. - CA.
Posts: 840
I've seen the T04E and it's pretty small and I beleive it's recomended for the 2nd gen' and T04R for the 3rd gen. At least that's what I get out of it from takakaira.com. Anyhow, you can retain the smog pump but loose the 25 feet of vacuum hose. How much more simple can you get then a rotary and a single turbo.
If the shop pulled the vacuum hoses allready, they will make bank on your dad. He is a walking lollipop (sucker). They will never get them put back correctly and you will return several times and he will continue to pay over an over again.
I understand your dads intent though. I also beleive you are too young for this car but then it could be worse and you could have a crotch rocket. If you can show him responsibility with the car then next year he won't have a problem with it. If you start getting speeding tickets, he proved his point. You will have to compromise with him and learn how to work on the car yourself. Keep the single under your bed untill you turn 18 and install it yourself when the 2nd turbo goes out on the twins and it will.
If the shop pulled the vacuum hoses allready, they will make bank on your dad. He is a walking lollipop (sucker). They will never get them put back correctly and you will return several times and he will continue to pay over an over again.
I understand your dads intent though. I also beleive you are too young for this car but then it could be worse and you could have a crotch rocket. If you can show him responsibility with the car then next year he won't have a problem with it. If you start getting speeding tickets, he proved his point. You will have to compromise with him and learn how to work on the car yourself. Keep the single under your bed untill you turn 18 and install it yourself when the 2nd turbo goes out on the twins and it will.
06-03-2003, 07:09 PM
#30
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: O.C. - CA.
Posts: 840
Originally Posted by -=RX-7 KID=-' date='Jun 3 2003, 03:54 PM
Hell No i want my T04E. Get this the guy at the shop is claiming that the twins will have better drive ability. Haha what a joke. They both spool at 3k am i right dragon?