rfreeman27

I have it disabled on my 3rd gen (belt off for now) and its fine...really its not hard at all.



I havent taken the whole thing out because im getting my new wheels and tires in...18x9 up front and 18x10 in the rear with s-03's, so i may be singing a different song once they come in. i will see if its still easy to do with that setup.



Just pop the belt off (if you can on second gens without disabling something important) and see if you like it. If not, no big deal just pop the belt back on!

Corprin

Removing just your belt will not give you an exact feel of what the car is like. When you take the belt off you are still moving the PS fluid in the rack, it's just not under pressure, so it's much harder. This topic actaully came up on another forum I am on... here is what we came up with there....



Dave

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Joined: 19 Dec 2002

Posts: 197



Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:30 am Post subject: Questions



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Well, this is about the only group i'm connected to that knows dick about turning. I'm curious about how you guys feel about power brakes vs non-power, and power steering vs manual. Of course with things like the pedal ratio and steering ratio adjusted properly.

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Longroof

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Posts: 86

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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:41 am



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P/S is personal prefrence IMO. If an engine can make enough vacuum to support P/B use them, if it cant (at least 10 inches for most boosters), run a suitable non power master and you should be fine.

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DK

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Joined: 17 Dec 2002

Posts: 282

Location: Cary, NC

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:58 am



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Yay for real-time power steering ... boo on power brakes on my car ... for obvious reasons.









Import Hater

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Joined: 19 Dec 2002

Posts: 51



Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:03 am



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Manual steering is great for the track. It gives you terrific feedback as to what's going on with the grip situation up there. Sucks just about everywhere else though.



Manual brakes? Can't answer that one. I've yet to drive a decently set up car that has them.



Rob

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Dave

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Posts: 197



Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:43 pm



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Thanks guys.

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onevia

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Joined: 17 Dec 2002

Posts: 152

Location: Minnesota, USA

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:03 pm



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A friend of mine on this board has manual steering... I have drivin his car and its not so bad. I think it does have a lot of benifits for the track too. Tight U-turns and parking lots are a bitch, but hey, it'll get you strong arms.



About the brakes, I also have never drivin a decent car w/o power brakes. I remember the one car I did drive w/o them was not fun. You had to push on those things like there was no tomorrow to make you slow down even a little... which made it hard to concentrate on anything else.

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TypeIII

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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:37 pm Post subject:



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F1 cars are not allowed power brakes. Come on Dave, you can do it too!

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Dave

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Joined: 19 Dec 2002

Posts: 197



Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:13 pm



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TypeIII wrote:

F1 cars are not allowed power brakes. Come on Dave, you can do it too!





I knew all those years of soccer would pay off!!!

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Rich

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Posts: 62

Location: land of never ending traffic

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:56 pm



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Like Craig said, PS is an option. One I take and toss away for a manual steering rack. Not only does the pump take power, but that's just one more thing to go south when you need it. Running with no PS belt SUCKS ***, trust me 22:1 PS rack with no power!!! Also the reasons already said...you get a better feel on the track and road.



Powerbrakes are a must in my book. I have driven cars with manual brakes, hydro brakes, and power breaks.... By far the power brakes are the best!!! Yes, for the same reasons above things can go south, but the unnerving feeling of standing with both feet on the stop button, pulling up on the steering wheel to get enough brake power to stop your beast = NO FUN!!! Anyone that has driven Byron's MGB can attest to that!

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Jaggorri

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Joined: 18 Dec 2002

Posts: 267

Location: Los Gatos, NorCal!

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:29 pm



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HEY! My MGB ******* rocks! Besides, you can just stick your feet out flintstones style to stop it anyway. It's not like that 75+hp motor can push that pinnacle of British Engineering beyond the extreme speed barrier of 50 mph anyway.



As for the PS/PB bit- I personally opt to have power steering because I have a blown shoulder, and fighting with a steering wheel isn't my idea of fun, regardless of the feedback i get from the road. Power brakes are a definate as well, for the exact reasons Rich mentioned above.

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k.

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Posts: 253

Location: northern california

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:33 pm



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im lazy - power everything.



~k.

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Import Hater

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Joined: 19 Dec 2002

Posts: 51



Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:53 pm

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Variable power assist setups are getting quite good. The MagnaSteer setup the Corvette has is really good. Although feedback is still quite dull in comparison to a full manual setup. When you're at speed, it sems like there's no assist. But it's there when you need it in a parking lot. And it's a seamless transition between assist levels. Not like the Ford SHOs of years ago that kind of kicked on and off at weird times. The newest variable ratio stuff is interesting, but still isn't on any car I think I'd wanna buy yet.



Rob

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F'n Matt

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Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:28 am

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I'd prefer to have both, just because years of football and baseball (as well as a few fistfights) have left my rotator cuffs un-happy and good brakes are very high on my list of things to stay alive in a fast car.



I can't see how it's not worth the slight loss of power when it comes to turning a set of 275/40's in a daily-driver. However, it could be justified on an all out race car, but again, I'd rather have PS in that situation. Wide tires like to tramline, and it just makes things much more predictable IMO. My car has very little bumpsteer and the sonofabitch still darts when there are grooves or repairs made to the road surface.



There's no way I would have manual brakes in a road racing situation. The thought of running 140 MPH and needing to brake for a slow 2nd gear turn with manual brakes isn't a comforting feeling.



If it's going to be a streetcar, power assisted stopping and turning are the only way to maintain a shred of enjoyment when driving through town. The world's best suspension in absolutely pontless if the car isn't fun/easy to drive.

FCmaniac

I like the feel and feedback of the manual rack but like Mike said, its too slow for the tight turns... I may go back to PS rack disabled and looped.. not sure.

j9fd3s

yah, i'm thinking about that too. the manual rack is too light at speed too, as long as we're complaining about effort. the fc with manual rack and the 20b is the lightest steering i own



mike

FrestyleFC3S

to switch is it just ... remove the ps system and rack and put in a manual rack --- or you have to connect it to the steering column



what exactly

dr0x

The feel w/ the rack mostly drained vs full of fluid is night and day.

FCmaniac

yeah, just center it, swap it in, connect it to the steering shaft (one pinch bolt) and connect the tie rods.. then get an alignment