NA
05-24-2006, 04:39 PM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 959
BillGates: Hey, you want all my money?
One320B: Sure man...thanks, all the guys on the net aren't going to believe me!
BillGates: Sure they will; just put our conversation up on there
I'll ask him again tonight if I can really have all his money.
LAME.... you argue in every post. I've been on the forum since its birth. I was here before guys like you came on, and i'll be here long after this forum is dead. SO instead of filling it with this BS... just answer the GD questions....
One320B: Sure man...thanks, all the guys on the net aren't going to believe me!
BillGates: Sure they will; just put our conversation up on there
I'll ask him again tonight if I can really have all his money.
LAME.... you argue in every post. I've been on the forum since its birth. I was here before guys like you came on, and i'll be here long after this forum is dead. SO instead of filling it with this BS... just answer the GD questions....
05-24-2006, 04:52 PM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,315
Originally Posted by One320B' post='820917' date='May 24 2006, 04:39 PM
BillGates: Hey, you want all my money?
One320B: Sure man...thanks, all the guys on the net aren't going to believe me!
BillGates: Sure they will; just put our conversation up on there
I'll ask him again tonight if I can really have all his money.
LAME.... you argue in every post. I've been on the forum since its birth. I was here before guys like you came on, and i'll be here long after this forum is dead. SO instead of filling it with this BS... just answer the GD questions....
05-24-2006, 05:50 PM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Freeport FL
Posts: 381
You are arguing me and sadly your not one of the people posting with adequate knowledge to be arguing. This is like catching ducks in a barrel with strings tied to them and your finger. Then you arguing the strings don’t matter. Then you have people like Ronin claiming they don’t know crap about carbs then arguing they work and people posting with knowledge must be wrong. Feels like the university of rotary liberals. It’s right as long as it sounds good.
“I heard it on the interweb!”
How about unless you actually have creditable knowledge you don’t post.
“I heard it on the interweb!”
How about unless you actually have creditable knowledge you don’t post.
05-24-2006, 07:46 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 244
Depending on your mods and port style, you could see anywhere from 200 to 300 rwhp on a NA 13B.
I would have to agree with you that if you can tune a carb, run a carb setup. You will be missing the benefits of an EFI system, but power is power. If you are making the power you want, where you want it, it doesn't matter how you do it.
I would have to agree with you that if you can tune a carb, run a carb setup. You will be missing the benefits of an EFI system, but power is power. If you are making the power you want, where you want it, it doesn't matter how you do it.
05-24-2006, 10:54 PM
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston Ma.
Posts: 1,420
Originally Posted by jefraney' post='820949' date='May 24 2006, 08:46 PM
I would have to agree with you that if you can tune a carb, run a carb setup. You will be missing the benefits of an EFI system, but power is power. If you are making the power you want, where you want it, it doesn't matter how you do it.
05-25-2006, 11:55 AM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
Originally Posted by iceblue' post='820890' date='May 24 2006, 10:53 AM
I will ask him again tonight. If he realy did not port the motor.
its ported, gsl-se center and 12a irons is like the smallest port setup you can do.
05-26-2006, 09:41 AM
#47
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 83
I like EFI alot and Honda, Mazda, Subaru, and many others have done some amazing stuff with engine management but that stuff didnt happen until about 2002, maybe alittle earlier. The big step before that was 1996 and not too long before that, most stock efi really really sucked. I will say the 3rd generation rx7's efi may be an exception, along with a few honda's or bmw's and maybe one or 2 others. Reguardless, all decient fuel injection came after 1990. The 2 statements below are very different but very true, and apply to most cars before 1996 depending on the manufacturer. Read carefully see if you can see the difference.
You would see a gain in power if you took the stock (crappy) EFI off of the car and put a new intake manifold and aftermarket EFI on it (assuming its all well designed and well tuned).
You would see a gain in power if you took the stock (crappy) EFI off of the car and put a new intake manifold and carburetor on it (assuming its all well designed and well tuned).
Carburetors are ok, they have had like 100 years of developement, so fuel injection didnt catch up, except in the fuel consumption department, until the early 90s. EFI also helped with some low end driveability issues in smaller engines, but getting the most power out of cars was not most manufacturers' goal when they went to EFI. Fuel injection has been around for more than 50 years, but it wasnt widely used until the 80s, gee, i wonder why? I just dont have much faith in 20yr old EFI that i have seen more cases of it not working properly than i have of it working. I think webbers are great, but you might get alittle more driveability and gas mileage out of an edlebrock carb or holley. From talking to people Edlebrocks are much more user friendly and alittle easier to tune than holleys.
I say it doesnt matter what you replace the stock efi with as long as you replace it!
Modifying an FC with stock EFI is kinda like taking a bath with a toaster plugged in and sitting on the edge of the tub.
SAFCs are like scotch taping the toaster to the wall over the tub so that it wont slide off the edge into the water.
Now what happens if your scotch tape gets wet?
You would see a gain in power if you took the stock (crappy) EFI off of the car and put a new intake manifold and aftermarket EFI on it (assuming its all well designed and well tuned).
You would see a gain in power if you took the stock (crappy) EFI off of the car and put a new intake manifold and carburetor on it (assuming its all well designed and well tuned).
Carburetors are ok, they have had like 100 years of developement, so fuel injection didnt catch up, except in the fuel consumption department, until the early 90s. EFI also helped with some low end driveability issues in smaller engines, but getting the most power out of cars was not most manufacturers' goal when they went to EFI. Fuel injection has been around for more than 50 years, but it wasnt widely used until the 80s, gee, i wonder why? I just dont have much faith in 20yr old EFI that i have seen more cases of it not working properly than i have of it working. I think webbers are great, but you might get alittle more driveability and gas mileage out of an edlebrock carb or holley. From talking to people Edlebrocks are much more user friendly and alittle easier to tune than holleys.
I say it doesnt matter what you replace the stock efi with as long as you replace it!
Modifying an FC with stock EFI is kinda like taking a bath with a toaster plugged in and sitting on the edge of the tub.
SAFCs are like scotch taping the toaster to the wall over the tub so that it wont slide off the edge into the water.
Now what happens if your scotch tape gets wet?
05-26-2006, 12:52 PM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Freeport FL
Posts: 381
AFC's are gay I agree it was just a cheep fuel solution to gain HP out of the rich tuned OEM pulse timing. There is many way more in-depth reasons for my statements.
Some may be aware of this already and some may have read my posts on it before. But the 6pt motor as you are using and its intake and port timing has been developed to work with each other completely. If you change one of these and just one you fubar the entire setup and how the motor was engineered to work.
By going carb and stock intake you will never get the power out of it. By going EFI and porting the timing you will just screw the band up and maybe get a couple numbers some wear that is about useless in the band and stretch your curve out of reach.
So either one if you tune it will work.
You still get the factors and downsides of weather that effect a carbs performance and its tendency to unload fuel on you an lose the ability to control your timing map and some of the built in safety’s and launch controls EFI gives you.
IMO the only place a carb can get tuned close enough to make a difference or compete is in drag racing.
Some may be aware of this already and some may have read my posts on it before. But the 6pt motor as you are using and its intake and port timing has been developed to work with each other completely. If you change one of these and just one you fubar the entire setup and how the motor was engineered to work.
By going carb and stock intake you will never get the power out of it. By going EFI and porting the timing you will just screw the band up and maybe get a couple numbers some wear that is about useless in the band and stretch your curve out of reach.
So either one if you tune it will work.
You still get the factors and downsides of weather that effect a carbs performance and its tendency to unload fuel on you an lose the ability to control your timing map and some of the built in safety’s and launch controls EFI gives you.
IMO the only place a carb can get tuned close enough to make a difference or compete is in drag racing.
05-26-2006, 01:37 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston Ma.
Posts: 1,420
Originally Posted by iceblue' post='821234' date='May 26 2006, 01:52 PM
AFC's are gay I agree it was just a cheep fuel solution to gain HP out of the rich tuned OEM pulse timing. There is many way more in-depth reasons for my statements.
Some may be aware of this already and some may have read my posts on it before. But the 6pt motor as you are using and its intake and port timing has been developed to work with each other completely. If you change one of these and just one you fubar the entire setup and how the motor was engineered to work.
By going carb and stock intake you will never get the power out of it. By going EFI and porting the timing you will just screw the band up and maybe get a couple numbers some wear that is about useless in the band and stretch your curve out of reach.
So either one if you tune it will work.
You still get the factors and downsides of weather that effect a carbs performance and its tendency to unload fuel on you an lose the ability to control your timing map and some of the built in safety's and launch controls EFI gives you.
IMO the only place a carb can get tuned close enough to make a difference or compete is in drag racing.
Some may be aware of this already and some may have read my posts on it before. But the 6pt motor as you are using and its intake and port timing has been developed to work with each other completely. If you change one of these and just one you fubar the entire setup and how the motor was engineered to work.
By going carb and stock intake you will never get the power out of it. By going EFI and porting the timing you will just screw the band up and maybe get a couple numbers some wear that is about useless in the band and stretch your curve out of reach.
So either one if you tune it will work.
You still get the factors and downsides of weather that effect a carbs performance and its tendency to unload fuel on you an lose the ability to control your timing map and some of the built in safety's and launch controls EFI gives you.
IMO the only place a carb can get tuned close enough to make a difference or compete is in drag racing.
Hey, when you decide to tune that 12a carb, post it up. Us newbs will help you out.
05-26-2006, 02:52 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 959
Originally Posted by iceblue' post='821234' date='May 26 2006, 10:52 AM
IMO the only place a carb can get tuned close enough to make a difference or compete is in drag racing.
Minus the countless race classes in road course..scca, nasa, etc that outlaw EFI setups in the cars...so yea, your right, carbs are only good in drag racing.