DIY dry sump
11-01-2007, 06:19 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by auricom' post='886869' date='Nov 1 2007, 02:01 PM
That doesn't make any sence, did you read my entire post before replying? We already did the OMP delete and are running premix, but that doesn't have anything to do with this thread topic...Are you suggesting I put gasoline in my oil pan and that will take care of the interference issue between the oil pan and the crossmember?
I guess maybe what I am talking about is in fact a custom wet sump...I'm not planning on replacing the actual oil pump or suction tube, but rather, re-locating the actual volume of the oil pan into a cansiter adjacent to the motor on the spark side. the plate on the bottom of the motor would not be entirely flat, it would have little protruding areas where the suction tube would stick into, with an oil line coming from this side of this protrusion, from the neerby oil canister. there would be a similar protrusion near the back for the oil return line. the protruding areas would likely be fabricated by drilling two 3" holes in the plate where the suction tube and return dump are located. then we would cut two 2" long sections of 3" exhasut pipe and weld them to the plate where the holes are. then we would cap them off with the material we hole-sawed out of the plate in the first place. then we would weld a bung on each protrusion for oil feed and return. does this make more sence?
BTW, assuming this will work, i can pull this off for around $30, not $500-1000!
I guess maybe what I am talking about is in fact a custom wet sump...I'm not planning on replacing the actual oil pump or suction tube, but rather, re-locating the actual volume of the oil pan into a cansiter adjacent to the motor on the spark side. the plate on the bottom of the motor would not be entirely flat, it would have little protruding areas where the suction tube would stick into, with an oil line coming from this side of this protrusion, from the neerby oil canister. there would be a similar protrusion near the back for the oil return line. the protruding areas would likely be fabricated by drilling two 3" holes in the plate where the suction tube and return dump are located. then we would cut two 2" long sections of 3" exhasut pipe and weld them to the plate where the holes are. then we would cap them off with the material we hole-sawed out of the plate in the first place. then we would weld a bung on each protrusion for oil feed and return. does this make more sence?
BTW, assuming this will work, i can pull this off for around $30, not $500-1000!
The sump on ANY wet sump oil system has to be lower than the oil drains coming from the engine, otherwise the oil will back up into the drains and cause all sorts of problems. Dry sump pumps get around this by having scavenging sections that pull the oil from those drains, and pump them into the remote mounted sump.
So no, your idea will not work. You are making a mountain out of a molehill with this whole problem anyways. If 2" is going to cause you enough trouble that you feel you need dry sump, you seriously need to rethink the swap. That being said, the crossmember does not encompass the area of the entire oil pan, so I fail to see why you cant just find an OEM pan that will clear the crossmember, or even make a custom pan.
Have you even test fitted the engine in the car? Im guessing no
11-02-2007, 08:23 AM
#12
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dearborn Michigan
Posts: 21
Yes I’ve test fitted the motor in the car, in several slightly different spots. There are interference issues in every spot, but with the location we have decided to go with, it’s only the oil pan that will need modification. We will have to cut into the firewall a bit as well, but the engine will be pushed back and down low, and no major structural compromises should result. That’s why we decided on this location. Technically, it’s more that the steering gear is in the way, not the cross member itself. I don't know much about steering setups, maybe I can just move the steering rack to the front side of the cross member. It’s like that in the RX7 isn't it?
I see your point about the location of the oil can needing to be below the engine drain, and I agree now that I think about it, so I thank you for that help. The dilemma is that the cross member is going to me right in the way of the very front of the pan, where the suction line is. I think I agree that I should just make a custom pan and effectively "move" the volume rearward a bit. I might have to modify the suction tube as well, because even with no oil pan on the engine, the screen of the pick up tube is positioned very close to the cross member. I might take the suction tube out, and then extend the straight section between its bends by a couple inches. That way it will drop into the volume of oil a little further from the cross member, allowing me to make the custom pan a little more appropriately.
one other quick question...if you were to turn the engine over with the pan not attached, but some oil left in the system, how many spots would oil fall out of the bottom of the block? Doesn’t the oil only dump out of the back side housing? I know it doesn't go through the rotor hsgs, but I can't remember the exact oil path in the engine. Does anybody know this?
I see your point about the location of the oil can needing to be below the engine drain, and I agree now that I think about it, so I thank you for that help. The dilemma is that the cross member is going to me right in the way of the very front of the pan, where the suction line is. I think I agree that I should just make a custom pan and effectively "move" the volume rearward a bit. I might have to modify the suction tube as well, because even with no oil pan on the engine, the screen of the pick up tube is positioned very close to the cross member. I might take the suction tube out, and then extend the straight section between its bends by a couple inches. That way it will drop into the volume of oil a little further from the cross member, allowing me to make the custom pan a little more appropriately.
one other quick question...if you were to turn the engine over with the pan not attached, but some oil left in the system, how many spots would oil fall out of the bottom of the block? Doesn’t the oil only dump out of the back side housing? I know it doesn't go through the rotor hsgs, but I can't remember the exact oil path in the engine. Does anybody know this?
11-02-2007, 05:12 PM
#13
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Most likely, it would only come out of the center drain, if there is any oil left in the rotors. I cant really think of anything else that would drain oil when you turn the engine over, but not when its just sitting without a pan.
You can drop the rack, but go read up on some of the early 20b FD installs to hear about the problems. Lowering the rack throws the bump steer out, and while it may not be noticable in a street car, it certainly will in a race car. There are ways around it, but it was generally decided its better to leave the rack, and steering geometry the way it was.
Can you take a pic of the engine in the car? I want to get a better idea of exactly how and where its hitting so hopefully I can give you some better advice.
You can drop the rack, but go read up on some of the early 20b FD installs to hear about the problems. Lowering the rack throws the bump steer out, and while it may not be noticable in a street car, it certainly will in a race car. There are ways around it, but it was generally decided its better to leave the rack, and steering geometry the way it was.
Can you take a pic of the engine in the car? I want to get a better idea of exactly how and where its hitting so hopefully I can give you some better advice.
11-02-2007, 06:16 PM
#14
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 162
I have a 'DIY' dry sump setup on my 13B. Application is slightly different as it is in a kit car, but it fits nicely. sadly has been off the road for years so cannot tell you how well it works. If I remember I'll take some new pictures and repost the old ones to show you. Also have a search on this forum as Lynn Hannover has posted some very good information on DS setups. His solution is way more elegant than mine and give you a flat bottom to the engine.
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