Distributor Identification
03-02-2004, 10:21 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 62
I have a '79 with a points distributor and I would like to finally upgrade the ignition system. While I'm at it, I am considering DLIDFIS or 2GCDFIS (2nd Gen coil direct fire ignition system) if I can get a hold of an FC coil and ignitor.
I have aquired three spare distributors, but I'm not 100% sure what I've got. If anyone could help shed some light on what would be my best shot at improving my ignition, I would greatly appreciate it. If all goes well I will write up a "complete idiots guide to" with quality diagrams and photos.
Distributor #1:From a box-o-parts that came with the car when I bought it from my friend. He thinks it was from his '84 donor car. It has two J-109 ignitors mounted to the body.
Distributor #2:If I can recall correctly, I grabbed this off an '84 in a wrecking yard. Aside from the fact I have a short section of wiring with this one, I'm pretty sure this is the same as the first one. It also has two J-109 ignitors mounted to the body. This one does not have the metal shroud covering the contact points.
Distributor #3: This one I'm a bit confused about. First off, the car at the wrecking yard that I took this from was labeled as a 1980, however I checked the model plate in the engine bay and it was obviously a '79 (plus it had an oil cooler and all the old goodies). The last owner had a few minor performance upgrades (Rotary Performance ACV and thermal reactor blockoff plate, etc.) -YOINK-, so I wasn't suprised to see it had been upgraded to electronic ignition.
This is where I got excited, because it looks like they did all the work for me. For the extra few bucks, I grabbed the coils and ignitor block with the distributor. The only wires I had to cut were the two going into the stock harness from the coils (ignition +12v switched I believe). The distributor does not have the ignitors mounted to the body, there are two J-105 ignitors on an ignitor box.
I think the third one should provide a "drop-in" reliability upgrade up to electronic ignition. If it works, I think I should be able to manage further upgrades (DLIDFIS or 2GCDFIS) on my own.
I have aquired three spare distributors, but I'm not 100% sure what I've got. If anyone could help shed some light on what would be my best shot at improving my ignition, I would greatly appreciate it. If all goes well I will write up a "complete idiots guide to" with quality diagrams and photos.
Distributor #1:From a box-o-parts that came with the car when I bought it from my friend. He thinks it was from his '84 donor car. It has two J-109 ignitors mounted to the body.
Distributor #2:If I can recall correctly, I grabbed this off an '84 in a wrecking yard. Aside from the fact I have a short section of wiring with this one, I'm pretty sure this is the same as the first one. It also has two J-109 ignitors mounted to the body. This one does not have the metal shroud covering the contact points.
Distributor #3: This one I'm a bit confused about. First off, the car at the wrecking yard that I took this from was labeled as a 1980, however I checked the model plate in the engine bay and it was obviously a '79 (plus it had an oil cooler and all the old goodies). The last owner had a few minor performance upgrades (Rotary Performance ACV and thermal reactor blockoff plate, etc.) -YOINK-, so I wasn't suprised to see it had been upgraded to electronic ignition.
This is where I got excited, because it looks like they did all the work for me. For the extra few bucks, I grabbed the coils and ignitor block with the distributor. The only wires I had to cut were the two going into the stock harness from the coils (ignition +12v switched I believe). The distributor does not have the ignitors mounted to the body, there are two J-105 ignitors on an ignitor box.
I think the third one should provide a "drop-in" reliability upgrade up to electronic ignition. If it works, I think I should be able to manage further upgrades (DLIDFIS or 2GCDFIS) on my own.
03-03-2004, 01:10 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
ok well the 3rd one looks like an 80 setup to me.
the dizzys can be id'ed by the number on the side of it
n304 is a gsl-se
n236 is a turbo 12a
n249 is am 84-85 12a
n231 is 83
n201 is 81-82
i'm not sure about 80, 8341 maybe?
and i dunno about 79 either 8871?
the dizzys can be id'ed by the number on the side of it
n304 is a gsl-se
n236 is a turbo 12a
n249 is am 84-85 12a
n231 is 83
n201 is 81-82
i'm not sure about 80, 8341 maybe?
and i dunno about 79 either 8871?
03-03-2004, 01:20 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,284
You have two '81-'85 fb dizzies and one SA '80 dizzy. The '80 RX-7 said '79 on the door plate because it was built in '79 and sold as an '80 model most likely. My '76 Cosmo was built in '75. 
Have you seen the DLIDFIS article on my webpage? I'm pretty sure you have, as you seem quite on top of things thus far. If not, just click my www button and the link is on the left of my index page.
As for which dizzy you should use, uh... I guess it honestly depends on which distributor you like best. Heh, yep.
Actually, some of us have speculated that the '80 style might be best because the ignitors are already conveniently apart from the dizzy, and therefore wiring them for DLIDFIS ought to be a breese. Then again, Mazda changed more than just the ignitors in '81. Have you noticed the differences in the way the reluctors were cut From '80 to '81+? The '80 style has a smoother rise time if you can see it from the pickup's perspective. The later style is, well, different for some reason. I suspect the J-109 ignitor circuitry may have been tweaked to take advantage of this change.
Well, you could have both J-105 ignitors on leading and one J-109 on trailing. However, there is some specualtion that the J-105s were not as reliable as the J-109s. Then again, the J-109s can live for a long time on the hot dizzy housing, so it's probably safe to assume they'll live a lot longer on a heat sink over on the fender; away from the hot engine. Maybe you should use two J-109s on leading and one J-105 on trailing. You'd then have two spare J-109s and one spare J-105. One spare for each ignitor. Kind of a nice way to keep spares, I guess.
Why not try the ultimate setup? Swap an FB reluctor onto the SA shaft. Use J-109s on leading and a J-105 on trailing. My reasoning here is you'll end up with a factory matched reluctor to the important ignition circuit (leading), and a convenient shielded wire harness from the dizzy to the inner fender. That's what I would do if I were you. Oh, and one more thing, you won't need to buy 2nd gen parts.
The problem with the 2nd gen coil is that it has some shared stuff inside. The primary winding feeds two secondary windings. That may be ok for the most part, but personally, I like the thought of having two seperate ignitors switching two seperate coils with the only shared part simply being the 'lopsided AC' signal output of the magnetic pickup (slow rise time with a fast dropoff). This shared pickup output, I've found, only affects very slow RPM and is not a problem at low cranking speeds. If the battery has enough power to rotate the starter, it'll be enough to trigger the ignitors. I tested this theory when I had a bad battery. Also, my REPU's engine can spin so slowly that it literally sounds like it just stalled (tach also at 0), yet a little light gas pedal pumping and careful clutch usage can bring it back to life. I was shocked when it wouldn't stall.
Have you seen the DLIDFIS article on my webpage? I'm pretty sure you have, as you seem quite on top of things thus far. If not, just click my www button and the link is on the left of my index page.
As for which dizzy you should use, uh... I guess it honestly depends on which distributor you like best. Heh, yep.
Actually, some of us have speculated that the '80 style might be best because the ignitors are already conveniently apart from the dizzy, and therefore wiring them for DLIDFIS ought to be a breese. Then again, Mazda changed more than just the ignitors in '81. Have you noticed the differences in the way the reluctors were cut From '80 to '81+? The '80 style has a smoother rise time if you can see it from the pickup's perspective. The later style is, well, different for some reason. I suspect the J-109 ignitor circuitry may have been tweaked to take advantage of this change.
Well, you could have both J-105 ignitors on leading and one J-109 on trailing. However, there is some specualtion that the J-105s were not as reliable as the J-109s. Then again, the J-109s can live for a long time on the hot dizzy housing, so it's probably safe to assume they'll live a lot longer on a heat sink over on the fender; away from the hot engine. Maybe you should use two J-109s on leading and one J-105 on trailing. You'd then have two spare J-109s and one spare J-105. One spare for each ignitor. Kind of a nice way to keep spares, I guess.
Why not try the ultimate setup? Swap an FB reluctor onto the SA shaft. Use J-109s on leading and a J-105 on trailing. My reasoning here is you'll end up with a factory matched reluctor to the important ignition circuit (leading), and a convenient shielded wire harness from the dizzy to the inner fender. That's what I would do if I were you. Oh, and one more thing, you won't need to buy 2nd gen parts.
The problem with the 2nd gen coil is that it has some shared stuff inside. The primary winding feeds two secondary windings. That may be ok for the most part, but personally, I like the thought of having two seperate ignitors switching two seperate coils with the only shared part simply being the 'lopsided AC' signal output of the magnetic pickup (slow rise time with a fast dropoff). This shared pickup output, I've found, only affects very slow RPM and is not a problem at low cranking speeds. If the battery has enough power to rotate the starter, it'll be enough to trigger the ignitors. I tested this theory when I had a bad battery.
03-03-2004, 12:03 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 62
Thanks very much for the help!
I checked the numbers on the sides. The first two are N201, and the third one is 8341. For your records, my '79 is 8826.
I'm going to use the '80 distributor and swap the J-105's with J-109's as suggested. I like the idea of having a spare for each, so a J-105 will be used for trailing until I come across some more spare J-109's.
I've re-read the DLIDFIS article, and it now makes MUCH more sense with all the parts I need right in front of me (plus it helps now knowing what I have to work with). It took a few times before, but now it all makes sense... I think.
I'm thinking of doing something similar as RotorMotorDriver did with his guage mount here. My friend who still likes to tinker with his old car is a millwright so we may fabricate something of our own.
I've also decided to do Paul Yaw's quick pully labeling mod to make my life easier. His article now has me wondering if/how I should eliminate the advance mechanisms to run full advance at all times. It sounds like DLIDFIS should have enough kick to overcome the potentially rougher idle.
One last question before I run off and start wiring this up. I'm assuming that the ceramic external resistors are supposed to be removed, correct? I'm led to believe that leaving them defeats the purpose of this upgrade. Has anyone had long-term problems with the stock coils running at 12v?
Again, thanks everyone for all the help!
I checked the numbers on the sides. The first two are N201, and the third one is 8341. For your records, my '79 is 8826.
I'm going to use the '80 distributor and swap the J-105's with J-109's as suggested. I like the idea of having a spare for each, so a J-105 will be used for trailing until I come across some more spare J-109's.
I've re-read the DLIDFIS article, and it now makes MUCH more sense with all the parts I need right in front of me (plus it helps now knowing what I have to work with). It took a few times before, but now it all makes sense... I think.
I'm thinking of doing something similar as RotorMotorDriver did with his guage mount here. My friend who still likes to tinker with his old car is a millwright so we may fabricate something of our own.
I've also decided to do Paul Yaw's quick pully labeling mod to make my life easier. His article now has me wondering if/how I should eliminate the advance mechanisms to run full advance at all times. It sounds like DLIDFIS should have enough kick to overcome the potentially rougher idle.
One last question before I run off and start wiring this up. I'm assuming that the ceramic external resistors are supposed to be removed, correct? I'm led to believe that leaving them defeats the purpose of this upgrade. Has anyone had long-term problems with the stock coils running at 12v?
Again, thanks everyone for all the help!
03-03-2004, 01:14 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,284
Don't follow Paul's Instructions. Frankly, they're kinda dumb. Instead, you should get yourself a good quality METRIC tape measure. The simple reason is because the pulley is 360mm in circumference. That translates perfectly to 360 degrees. Just wrap it, mark it, and you're done (it might help to remove the pulley first). Also, I've found masking tape is prone to stretching. If you have an aftermarket (RB) pulley, you could use the masking tape method, if it's not exactly 360mm, but be very careful.
I wrote that DLIDFIS article in '01 when it was still sorta new to me. I guess I could rewrite it some day. Maybe shorten it or something?
For the resistors etc, simply remove everything and find the important wires. Then rewire everything. You can use the long screws to hold the ignitors on aluminum plate. You'll need to slightly enlarge the holes in the ignitors (you'll see).
There will be some wires from the key switch. One goes to the solenoid. Two go to the resistors (or at least one does). One is on when the key is in the start posistion. One is on when the key is in the ON posistion. The reason for this is so the coils get full 12V during cranking, and then once the engine fires, the power is then sent through the resistors to keep from burning the points very quickly. You'll need to find these and Y them together. Don't confuse the solenoid wire with the other one because it'll cause the starter to crank whenever the key is on. I did that once and quickly realised it and switched them.
Also, you might want to get three coils that say they can be used on transistor ignition. I tend to use stock FB Diamond coils. I don't see an advantage in purchasing MSD blaster coils, especially when those coils are actually meant for CD (capacitave discharge) ignition, yet still perform ok on kettering ignition (like DLIDFIS). Plus, Diamond coils can be had from junkyard cars for super-cheap.
You should ask me about my 20B ignition system.
I wrote that DLIDFIS article in '01 when it was still sorta new to me. I guess I could rewrite it some day. Maybe shorten it or something?
For the resistors etc, simply remove everything and find the important wires. Then rewire everything. You can use the long screws to hold the ignitors on aluminum plate. You'll need to slightly enlarge the holes in the ignitors (you'll see).
There will be some wires from the key switch. One goes to the solenoid. Two go to the resistors (or at least one does). One is on when the key is in the start posistion. One is on when the key is in the ON posistion. The reason for this is so the coils get full 12V during cranking, and then once the engine fires, the power is then sent through the resistors to keep from burning the points very quickly. You'll need to find these and Y them together. Don't confuse the solenoid wire with the other one because it'll cause the starter to crank whenever the key is on. I did that once and quickly realised it and switched them.
Also, you might want to get three coils that say they can be used on transistor ignition. I tend to use stock FB Diamond coils. I don't see an advantage in purchasing MSD blaster coils, especially when those coils are actually meant for CD (capacitave discharge) ignition, yet still perform ok on kettering ignition (like DLIDFIS). Plus, Diamond coils can be had from junkyard cars for super-cheap.
You should ask me about my 20B ignition system.
03-03-2004, 03:22 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 62
I don't want to turn this into a completely different thread, but I'll continue here because it is directly related to my ignition upgrade.
I guess so long as my pulley is 360mm, your tape measure method sounds a lot easier. I was going to skip the masking tape step anyways and just measure directly onto my pulley with a caliper. I definately have to remove mine because it is so grungy I can't even see the stock timing marks.
I believe my diagram is right (somone please correct me if needed).
Assuming a 360mm pulley, these are the measurements I came up with to each marking when measured from TDC (in orange on the image):
05° 07.744mm
10° 15.474mm
15° 23.174mm
20° 30.833mm
25° 38.433mm
30° 45.964mm
I have 4 spare Diamond coils that are all good, so those will be used. Thanks for the help! The external resistors look like they will be the most work out of all of this.
I guess so long as my pulley is 360mm, your tape measure method sounds a lot easier. I was going to skip the masking tape step anyways and just measure directly onto my pulley with a caliper. I definately have to remove mine because it is so grungy I can't even see the stock timing marks.
I believe my diagram is right (somone please correct me if needed).
Assuming a 360mm pulley, these are the measurements I came up with to each marking when measured from TDC (in orange on the image):
05° 07.744mm
10° 15.474mm
15° 23.174mm
20° 30.833mm
25° 38.433mm
30° 45.964mm
I have 4 spare Diamond coils that are all good, so those will be used. Thanks for the help! The external resistors look like they will be the most work out of all of this.
03-03-2004, 07:20 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,284
I would think that those calculations would need to be smaller than what you posted. Reason why is because a straight line from point A to point B is a shorter distance than going around a curve. 10º would end up being 9.132mm or something like that (just a guess).
03-03-2004, 09:28 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 62
Alright, I've fixed the image. My pulley diameter was WAY off, degrees half of what they should have been, and AB lines measured in horizontal distance, not actual length. Those three factors combined to make some pretty lousy numbers!
The real numbers are:
05° 04.986
10° 09.962
15° 14.919
20° 19.848
25° 24.739
30° 29.583
If anyone would like the source CorelDRAW! file (or converted to another format) for a template or whatever, drop me a line and I'll hook you up.
The real numbers are:
05° 04.986
10° 09.962
15° 14.919
20° 19.848
25° 24.739
30° 29.583
If anyone would like the source CorelDRAW! file (or converted to another format) for a template or whatever, drop me a line and I'll hook you up.
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