jspecracer7

Be nice Chris. Opinions are allowed.

Dragon

But very bad suggestions from inexperienced people that will cost other people $ are not. The only thing that will replace a good intercooler is if you’re running Methanol Alcohol.



If you have a bad intercooler then get a good one before you even worry about water injection.

epion2985

is methanol ahcohol street legal? not that it would make a difference but just qurious.



Also does it put out more polution then gasoline? (as far as I know alcohol burns cleaner then gasoline but not sure about METHANOL alcohol)



And does running methanol alcohol take more toll on your engine then gasoline?

Dragon

You need approximately 2 times more fuel going in to the engine as gasoline to run it. This mean you need one hell of a fuel system to run it. You'd need to double the injector sizes and get a huge fuel pump to feed the volume of fuel you need. The exhaust burns the **** out of your eyes, water will drip out of you exhaust from combustion and your intake manifold will form ice on it



Not sure about emissions, but damn it smells sweet...



If you run premix with it you should be fine, but last time I ever bought any in the states (about 12 years ago) it was $2.50 a gallon and you will get 1/2 the gas mileage you get now, so I don't think it would be considered streetable..



and unfortunatly we can get it here in Japan..

rfreeman27

You need approximately 2 times more fuel going in to the engine as gasoline to run it. This mean you need one hell of a fuel system to run it. You'd need to double the injector sizes and get a huge fuel pump to feed the volume of fuel you need. The exhaust burns the **** out of your eyes, water will drip out of you exhaust from combustion and your intake manifold will form ice on it



Not sure about emissions, but damn it smells sweet...



If you run premix with it you should be fine, but last time I ever bought any in the states (about 12 years ago) it was $2.50 a gallon and you will get 1/2 the gas mileage you get now, so I don't think it would be considered streetable..



and unfortunatly we can get it here in Japan.. [/quote]

thank you dragon for confirming the fact that on rx-7's running only water injection is not a good idea. I dont like it when people hype about things such as water injection, and make it sound like it will solve ALL your problems. Sure its a good system and i would consider buying/making one, but my money will be going towards a good intercooler beforehand.



humm gtr core looks nice

ZeroBanger

excuse me but I have worked on my car for the last 2 years, nearly every day. I dont need you calling me "inexperienced". I did mention that the water injection Must be set up properly and be fool proof. Infact I did not suggest that anyone run without the intercooler, I simply said if the water inection is fool proof and you have enough water, you dont need an intercooler and thats a fact.



Even if you tune for water injection and keep your intercooler, if your water injection fails you will likely pop your motor.



My intercooler I would also no say its "bad". Its does have the least amount of Lag, and lowest pressure drop of all the IC's. with that, it has the least amount of cooling surface area.



The only thing the intercooler does is cool the intake temps. Water injection will cool the intake temps better than an Intercooler. I recommend that most should keep the intercooler because water injection is not as reliable as the IC.



My plan in the future is to have a pipe fabricated to fit the lower/upper hose and I will have 6-8 different size misting nozzles at different locations, a redundant system with 2 seperate water pumps, etc. If one pump fails the other will be activated. Anyway, its a while away.



If you want to keep arguing or slamming me with insults I'll match them. its your move "Dragon".

epion2985

does taking out the ic realy cut lag alot? I have been told it is not significant.



also, this is just an idea but... when there is a pressure drop things get cold. Thats how fridges work, by compressing a gas in to a fluid and then spraying it out of a smapp hole, the pressure drops, form liquid to gas = evaporation = like poaring alcohol on your hand and it suddenly gets really cold. Anyway, why not spray in say methanol in to the intake manifold. It wont be crazy like running fully on it, but it does burn just fine and the expantion will drop the temratures dramaticaly. if done with a 1/4 hp compressor and good heat exanger idle temps as low as -50C .... anyone think this is a good idea?

Dragon

Damn, I've been challenged to a dual..



#1 Excuse me, I guess I forgot to mention the other 17 years of building piston engine before the 5 years of working on rotarys.



#2 you said "the intercooler is doing nothing more than causing pressure drop and lag. You don’t need it except if the water injection fails” and you said "An intercooler is only a back up for the water injection because it’s reliable. It serves NO other purpose." Sound to me like you telling people they don't need an intercooler in those statements. I guess they are supposed to run around sucking in 80'c + intake air temp all day long 99% of the time till the water injection comes on at what ever boost you have it set for. WOW... that should make lots of HP and have a great power curve. NOT!





#3 If you use the water injection to boost really high you'll can blow you motor if it fails, but most people use it as a safety net for reliability to keep the engine together and keep it clean inside. It's also nice to have because the second you over boost from something failing like a vacuum hose it can keep your engine together.



#4 you said this about your intercooler "I’m running around with sub ambient air temps, my puny blitz SMIC does ****." Sounds to me like you said your intercooler pretty much sucks. Try taking it off and driving around and see what your intake air temp goes to.



#5 my intercooler drops my air intake temps buy 40-50'c of what they would be with out it, I'd love to see water injection do that. As a matter of fact I have a friend in the shop next door running a Tec III on his BP FC and we were looking at his data logs last night. With a really good intercooler and Aquamist water injection system running a 1.0 jet, his intake air temps went from 37'c to start with up to around 58'c at the end of 3r gear on a all out run boosting 1.3kgcm. Gee, I wonder what they would have climbed to with out the intercooler.



If you respond in any way answer this question, how are you measuring your air intake temps?



Your one of those people who thinks he knows everything, but only knows enough to be dangerous. Also, I don't need to fight since I'm a mod and I can just delete your posts if I want to, but if you want to continue with your inconsistent statements, half truths and argue then shoot.

Jerk_Racer

Way back when some years back I was 100% anti-water injection. I felt it was fine for WRC cars and what they need from their engines, but for a street car (especially those below 400hp or so) it was a waste of time. When I first met 1bad180sx two years ago when I was on vacation we spoke at length about this. Me - against it, him - for it. My previous "experiences" with it was with people that used it for covering up bad tuning. That formed my opinions on it early on as a cheap band-aid solution to a far greater problem.



These days I find the idea growing on me. Using it to make things better after the tuning is done. Not simply to be able to raise boost for more power, but for a reliability mod to a high tuned engine. No engine built for high performance purposes is "bulletproof". No matter how well built. Everything that can be done to reasonably lower the chances of a bad thing happening to a good engine is worth the effort for some people.

jspecracer7

I love the idea of water injection and plan on running a similar system that all the Japan Forum guys run. However, IMHO there is no substitute for a good intercooler. Reason being...we drive our cars on the street. i.e. our cars spend most of it's time at below boost levels 0 psi and into vacuum. If water injection is turned on ONLY when boosting...what happens when your cruising at 3000 rpms and decide to punch it? Guarantee you my air intake temps are lower than a car that runs only water injection.



If we all drove race cars that ONLY see a quarter mile track...I'd be the first to only run water injection and no Intercooler...but I drive my 7 to work, take myself and the wife on dates, race the occasional GT-R...etc.