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ok let me start by saying that yes its true..



i was told that making my n/a .,....turbo was not smart and that it was a waist of time ..... and let say .....that is totally wrong





i just finished last week making my n/a 87 turbo and let say it rocks,i love it i've been in 3rd gens that dont run as fast as my car does



i am running a not ported 13b engine with a t04b at 10 lbs of boost , the t04 has a p trim and a A/R of 96 , i have an hks blow off valve and 4 550 injector i will soon take it to a dyno and to the track and ill keep you guys posted



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sound good man. let us know.

sounds awsome, u mount a fmic or u using something else for cooling?

I believe its the material the apex seals are made out of that isn't good for boost. Also aren't the rotors a different compression? I'd be more concerned with the apex seals breaking.

man i would recomend to change those 550 injector for 680 or 720 secondary. i had my gslse engine with 4 x 550 and stock S4 turbo and it was sputtering because was running out of gas at 10 psi maibe is not the case for you. but just a recomendation https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/bigthumb.gif

pics please

You have an aftermarket turbo whats your point?

This is the funny part here: You have enough for 235-240rwhp safely, if using the stock ecu and stock static fuel pressure rate.



Do you know why n/a boosted engine have a bad rap? Because most people who do them do ghetto work, and almost always pop the engine shortly after.

his point may be that he's doing this with an otherwise NA car? (trans, driveshaft, diff, axles?)





why is it whenever someone starts a boosted NA thread 1revvin7 rears the ugly head? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683561.gif

Giving bad advice is not cool......

yeah but I don't really see the problem, if someone bolts up a turbo to an NA and makes it work, and goes fast, what part of this is bad?



The part when they break their trans or rear end?



OK, but the point you would argue in the first place is to just swap in the t2 trans and rear end and drop all the money at once without even bothering to try the light and likely-underbuilt approach, not to mention cheap.



You don't lose anything by taking the repair-on-demand approach, and you just might not end up having to replace any of the drivetrain parts depending on how much you boost, how hard you drive, and the condition of all the components, in which case you will have saved some money and weight.



I think alot of the problem with people breaking rear ends in these situations is not the rear end itself but the mounts being worn out applying excessive and unexpected forces to the housing of the differential. When that front mount is toasted you get some crazy twisting going on back there.





So what exactly is the problem with boosting an otherwise NA car again?

I didn't mean boosting n/a motors is " bad advice".



He wasn't even giving advice, but the way he came off, some members on here will think, " hey I can do that, I can even get away with stock t2 injectors on a to4B running 10psi!"



I'm not against high compression motors, I am against bad information, and half assed work. This is what I meant by, " bad advice"



You're right about the repair on demand approach. Nothing wrong with that. But as far as t2 drivetrains being expensive goes. I swapped a t2 drivetrain in and sold my n/a drivetrain; I had enough money left over from the transaction to buy competition mounts for the entire powertrain. Bargains do come along sometimes. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png

bargains certainly do come along, hence the t2 sitting in my driveway.



but note, the greater than atmospheric pressure will be going to my engine before any of that t2 junk goes into my car. It's simply there in case I do break everything. If I don't, it's sold for a profit and my car is lighter than yours.

light = https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

I wish someone could find out the exact weight difference between the drivetrain parts.

I just might have to do that, NA trans and diff in the garage already.



I'm probably pulling the t2 apart this weekend so we can bring the motor up to bigturbo, I'll weigh the rest of the stuff as it comes out.



I've carried both, I've pushed both, and damnit everything on the NA is lighter... but that obviously comes with some negatives.



thers a funny thread over on the club by icemark about his vert, he turbo'd it and said it turned into a pig with all that crap and now it's a built NA and he's happier with it. I'm surprised it came from someone on the club!

Sounds like a plan.



I wonder what he would think of an n/a coupe...

I say congrats to Aurosting. Best of luck to you. But I would change out the 550cc secondaries for something bigger. Just to be on the safe side of things since you are running higher compression rotors. But other than that keep us posted on your dyno numbers and time slips. Laterz.



Zach

http://groups.msn.com/ChucksRX7/1983rx7.ms...oto&PhotoID=104



Aurosting

check the link out. It is cheaper to make a n/a turbo then to do a turboII motor change. Nice to see others turbocharging n/a motors. 9.4 rotors do not use as much fuel/air at a given boost # as does 8.5 rotors.

chuck

So why did you switch to a t2 motor? And why were you using a t3 turbine footprint before?

Where did you get that idea? Higher compression actually raises the VE, which in turn increases the amount of air/fuel entering the chamber at any given time. Boost is entirely relative to how much air the engine is flowing. But thats still beside the point, because boost and compression ratio are completely independent of each other.





Aurosting, how about a complete run-down of your setup?

Anyone want to comment on the material the apex seals are made out of for NA engines?

i am using the stock t2 intercooler ...its not the best but it works

Actually i thought of that ahead of time , am currently using t2 seal and gasket just to make sure i dont kill the engine and yeah the compression of my n/a rotors are 9.4 and turbo ones are 8.5, i wanted higher comp ....am prettry sure the seals wont break for a long time as long as i dont abuse the engine .....too much https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

OH yeah sorry to every on but i must reply like this because i dont use my computer too much and its the only way to talk to every one

actually am planing on doing just that.... installing 2 720cc injector and at the same time installing a front mount intercooler and an after market down pipe, i still have the t2 stock one with a cat

Dude dont get offended or pist am just saying





and am also taking precautions to avoid killing the engine

and yeah if you want call it want you want



ghetto work, amateur work, proffecional work





if it works it works

cool site dude

a complete run-down of my setup







1----non-ported 6 port 1987 n/a high comp engine "9.4 compression"(seals and gasket of a t2 for safty and yes it can be done)

2----t2 intake manifold

3----msd fuel pressure regulator with boost index

4----4 t2 550cc injectors

5---- t2 fuel pump

6----t04b turbo a/r 96 p-trim

7 ----took the stock back end of a t2 turbo housing and got it bored out so the t04 fits in perfecty and got the whole turbo ceramic coeted and i also get to use the stock waste gate https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

8----t2 stock down pipe with cat , no secondary cat

9----single 2.5 exhust with a 4" muffer

8----stock n/a trans

9----no power steering, a/c , and pollution pump

10----20w50 oil

11----ngk b9es spark plugs

12---- 4 puck bronz racing clutch

13----hks blow off valve

14----t2 hood

15----10 psi of boost

16----atkin one peice "wha u ma cal it"(dont remember its name)

17---- thats all i can remember off the top of my mind

they use the same seals as the turbo motors

actually i think there is 2 defferent set because if you go to mazda they will give 2 rebuild set option turbo and n/a

wha part of kissimme r u from....sorry for comming away from tha topic

They are the same.



Rebuild kits are different from n/a to t2 based on the gasket set.

I have an s4 n/a gasket set for my 91' t2 motor. The only difference is you don't get the metal turbo gasket and ofcourse wrong engine to lim gasket and lim/uim gsaket.



So you have a hyrbid to4B. That would make sense. I use to have one also. to4b housing/60-1 wheel bolted to an s5 t2 turbine housing bored to accept a bigger exhaust wheel. But you said .96 turbine a/r?? How does that make sense if you are using the stock turbine housing?



Sorry I didn't mean to come off as a dickhead https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

osceola

so both kits are the same , except the exhust gasket?



oh yeah what i meant is that when i bought the the turbo it originally came with the 96 a/r with the housing , then i took the t2 turbine housing to get bored to accept a bigger exhaust wheel ....but yeah it has the bigger blade

I could swear there were different materials for the two, but I could easily be wrong.



As long as you have the fuel and correct ecu for timing and such, it should work in theory. I imagine you have to keep the boost lower to blanance out the higher comp rotors though.

9.4 rotor has a small intake chamber then 8.5 rotors. If the intake camber is smaller, less fuel and air is required. Let say 8.5 rotor chamber space equals a gallon. 9.4 rotors intake chamber can not be more then a gallon ( has to be less space ) so less fuel and air is needed to have a given air/fuel ratio.







chuck

Reason why I went with the T3 turbo is because that is what I had.....



Reason why I went to a turboII motor was because after a year boosting the n/a motor I did blow it up. Installed a T4 T70 .96a/r p-trim wheel clipped 11deg. The n/a motor could not move the volume of air/fuel this turbo could move. I tried anyway. Well at 25psi of boost my sds hit fuel cut, so at 25spi the motor was treing to run of only 2 550cc sub injectors.

Found another motor and it happened to be a turboII motor. rebuilt it and bought a new T66 .96 p-trim.

Aurosting



before you go buying bigger injectors find out your injector pulse width/duty cycle at your desired boost level at 7000rpm. This will let you know if you need bigger injectors or maybe you can get by with increasing you base fuel pressure a few psi to compensate.

Just a thought.

chuck

thanks for the parts list but could you post how you did it and some pics.



thanks

trent



88 n/a needs boost mmmmmm..... boost https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683473.gif