FikseRxSeven

about 2 years ago, 9base3(he is a part owner, but a good guy), offered a turbo kit for to4s, and to4r turbos, for a very cheap price, they claimed that they made their own manifold and the turbos were made by garrett.



so, i paid for the turbo, and close to three months later, and numerous phone calls to ron who always claimed that the package was in the mail everytime i called, i would say 20 or so times.



after recieving the turbo, the manifold was a an e bay manifold. and when dragon from okinawa came to the US to help me with my car, he told me that his garrett to4r's comprssor wheel does not look anything like the one i had in my car..... after tuning the car the jet hot coating on the manifold started to flake as the EGT's went up.



a few months later, as i was driving the on a nice winter day, the "silicone" return line that they provided for the turbo kit, bursted while the oil temps were high and i hit 120psi because of my boosting and my car was drained of oil. justin (9base3) sent me the return line from his turbo......



fortunately, the turbo as not quit on me yet, but there is some shaft play, and a lot of smoke on startup.



it got to a point when i had to block my phone number for ron to answer my calls, they have left me on hold for long periods of time.... up to 20 mins.



keep in mind that this is the same company that screwed zach over when he was making the transmission braces for a group bu that he set up

Maxt

And now he is claiming he is the one that put you onto that turbo years back...



My experience with that turbo also predates D-r's release by about 2-3 years, so I suppose next they are gonna say they told me about it to..



What turbo someone puts in a kit doesnt really matter to me , Brian, or anyone else, some people have packaged the t04's for years, and just called it there "kit". This turbo is dirt cheap to buy on its own, DR is asking a premium for it, based on the reasoning its a custom turbo, if its a custom turbo, why grind the part numbers off of it and the name? If its that much better than an off the shelf s300, let people try and copy it and suffer the results..



But the story changes faster than Cher's chin.



First in Rxtuner:



Here is the first "story" about this turbo:





The pictures were sent to Schwitzer/Borg Warner and the following reply was had.





Reading on the forum , now the story has changed to anywhere from Ron inventing it, to Ron and an ex garrett engineer.



I talked to Hks about their turbos when I was in Japan, the sales rep for greddy spent 2 hours with me explaining the math behind greddy and mitsu turbo part numbers in terms of flow an power, these major companies have nothing to hide where they got their components from, or the fact they use someone elses turbo's, you can build their turbos from garrett replacment parts if you wish and they will tell you how.







DaVinci and Garret, aimed specifically at the unique requirements of arotary. Utilizing high a efficiency 61mm GT style compressor wheel DaVinci and Garret, aimed specifically at the unique requirements of arotary. Utilizing high a efficiency 61mm GT style compressor wheel



DaVinci and Garret, aimed specifically at the unique requirements of arotary. Utilizing high a efficiency 61mm GT style compressor wheel and a1.00 A/R divided housing,



Hmm, specifically for a rotary yet they have had such a hard time producing a dyno sheet, anyone who designed a turbo specifically for a rotary would surely have a bunch of dyno testing sheets available before they started selling it surely?...How did they know it worked well on a rotary?..Surely they did extensive dyno testing, oh yeah wheres the sheets.... There was sheet cooked up by someone 418 rwhp through a stock gutted TII cat, get a grip, never gonna happen...



When i was playing with the s300 series, my turbo machinist tried to adapt a garrett wheel to the s300 and found the quill was to short, and the housing was not deep enough to accomodate garrett wheel profiles.



I really wouldnt have cared a rats *** about it, if they had left the name and whatever on the turbo, it probably wouldnt be an issue, doing what they did just has a really bad smell about it.



Caveat emptor.

BDC

This guy is claiming that he gave me and Tony the information on this turbo back in '03???



There's a few holes with that story:



1) The turbo we used (you can verify this in old posts dating back to summer '03) was an off-the-shelf Schwitzer S300 w/ the "big dog legs" 1.15 A/R back housing. This one was manufactured to be used on the Cummins 10L diesel engine of the time. Knowing this per the posts from then as well as from more recently, Ron would then be unspokenly saying that his turbo is an S300 or a derivative of it which goes against his claims and corroborates ours.



2) If he allegedly told us about this turbo way back when, then why didn't he release his AF61R three years ago? Afterall, he knew how magical this thing was, right? Why wait until mid-late '05 to release it?



3) This goes against his own claims and advertising that it's a joint-venture between Garrett and DaVinci by implying that the Schwitzer S300 is of the same ilk as the AF61R. Schwitzer and Garrett are two separate entities altogether.



4) If his claims mention anything beyond the AF61R's alleged design and creation as being earlier than '05, then how did we get ahold of the very same turbo in '03?



The truth is Tony and I were looking for an alternative to his TO4E-57 trim he had at the time. It was getting hammered on pretty bad w/ the new half-bridgeport setup done on his car so we started eyeballing the new (to '03) Garrett catalog that included most of the new ball-bearing units, their new GT-series, etc. We looked at one (it was either the GT40 or the GT42; I can't remember which) and inquired about getting more info and pricing on it at a local turbo shop. The owner there told us that they weren't actually out yet and said that the replacement unit for the time being was the Schwitzer S300. Whether he was lying or not is another argument entirely, but at the time it made sense. So, after checking out an S300 and seeing the specs on it (the turbo shop owner pulled up the specs himself and printed them out for us to review), we went with it. DaVinci has never once ever spoken to us about anything prior to all the hubbub concerning this AF61R which began in Oct '05. Prior to that, I'd never heard of him.



B

Zero R

Unfortunately I feel I can't really comment on this subject too much as I sell turbo's and turbo kits. So I wouldn't want people to use the argument of bias against me. For anyone paying attention it is obvious Brian(BDC)has no kits to sell. I do know where the turbo comes from as I have stated. It is exactly what you say it is. I also know if people would take the time and do some searches they would see exactly what is up. Brian is a stand up guy anyone who can't see that is more than likely questionable of character themselves. It is not that the turbo wont perform, or even make some happy. It is because the "package" it was put in is the whole issue.

ErnieT

You should have PM'ed me from the get go. I would have done my best to get a resolution. All the BS over in the single turbo section needs to stop anyhow. It should be getting better. If anyone made threats, copy it and send it to me.

BDC

I didn't know you had the authority to do that, Ernie. I'll send you what I've got. Thanks.



B

BoOsTin FD

How much is the real S300 turbo and where can you get it anyway?

BDC

Depending on the shop and the account, they can be had for about $400 to $500. The actual S300 uses a "ginormous" turbine housing that we had problems with back then. From what we know now, it may not be as much of an issue to get it to run decently, but we wound up switching it off for a 0.83 A/R (smaller) housing from a John Deere S300 (built from the S300 core).



You can see pictures of both the off-the-shelf S300 as well as the big turbine housing:

http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/ProjectCars/To...BorgWarnerS300/



If the turbo had a little bit "more" compressor to it, I probably would've used it myself. Infact, I came real close to using it. I love the whistle it makes and the way it sounds. It's a decent turbo that will perform, but for real high power it seems to need to be boosted to oblivion. Plus, the turbine housing has to be changed to accomodate since it's so large (for most setups).



B

jwteknix

best products and customer service is mazdatrix.com cant beat it all ways on point

BDC

Hey Zero R, didn't they say in the RXTuner magazine that you tuned that AF61R car at your shop on your dyno???



B