HellCat

Somebody know about "racing oil seal springs"(from mazdatrix).

Can I use only outer oil seals?(R26b had only outer rings(from photos)).

And which oil consumption will I have with this setup

RETed

I used to have those overpriced things.

I could not tell if they had any significantly higher spring rate by "bouncing" them with my hands.

They do not look to be of a different material either.



There's a reason why you need two oil control rings.

What do you hope to accomplish by running just one set?

I don't see the insignificant reduction in internal friction producing any significant power gains measurable by any dyno out there?



Yes, it'll spew oil like a ****.





-Ted

ArmyOfOne

I am just thinking out loud here so don't shoot me... Please?



Lets just say that you just run the inner oil ring, Could you not port towards the inside instead of outward. In my opinion for whatever it is worth this would help keep the side seal leading tip from being exposed as well as the corner seal from being exposed. You would have less overlap allowing for a cleaner intake charge.



The only problem I could see with this type of setup would be that since the O-ring to the inner oil seal is on the outside of the ring the side seal clearance can not allow a great deal of blowby. If it did it would definitely lead to oil seal failure.



And correct me if I am wrong but, would the rotating assembly have to be reballaced to account for the missing 4 ounces?



...just my 2 cents





brap brap brap...

HellCat

I mean only outer oil control ring(I'm building PP).

Balancing not problem,because even Mazda balancing without counting oil weight(inside rotor).

ArmyOfOne

I guess that doing it that way does protect the rubber.

Lynn E. Hanover

There is at least one pro builder porting into the outer oil scraper path. The engines are limited to street porting. They smoke quite a bit at idle but at speed there is so much air mixing with it that it is not a problem. It would be a disaster on the street.



He is running both scrapers. I don't know of anyone that has tried just the inner ring. It may be possible with just a hint of extra smoke, or it may be possible with the stiffer spring or just doubled stock springs and no detectable smoking at all.



If you are successful please report it here. I will do it on the next build if it works.



There are many classes of racing that require all stock parts. On way to get an advantage is to reduce drag in any part where speeds are high. So in piston engines, that means the ring package, oil film drag and lifter drag. In the rotary it is also ring drag, or actually oil scraper drag.



If you can leave out one ring, even if you have to increase spring pressure on the second ring to do it, it is an improvement in drag. When the rotors had two sets of side seals each, we left off the inner set of seals. Just that simple.



In the formula "V" 1600CC VW (stock) engine they are over 60 HP from an engine that had trouble making the advertised 40 HP. Most of that is drag reduction. Notice that the fast ones smoke a lot. No tension in the oil scraper ring set.



And, yes, you can see the difference easily on the dyno.



Lynn E. Hanover



Picture shows track of leading end of the side seal on the right, and the trailing end on the left. Porting into the outer oil scraper path could make this port 2/3" wider to the left side.

HellCat

I said only outer,not inner,and for peripheral ported motor.

Lynn what you think about this timings:

IO 80 BTDC

IC 85 ABDC

EO 75 BBDC

EC 60 ATDC

(rectangular ports).

Lynn E. Hanover

Pports don't close late. They don't need to, they flow so well. That gives a bit better compression. Stock closing is 75 degrees. I have some modified housings from a major tuner and the closing line has been left in place and the open point has been moved way down. With little or no exhaust back pressure this would work OK.



Stock open point is 86 degrees. Pretty mild.



Stock exhaust open is 73 degrees and close is 65 degrees so your timing is mild there also. But all in the ball park, and all timing is at the crank and is three times what the rotor is doing. So moving the rotor 3 degrees, which is nothing and not detectable with the eye, reports at the crank as 9 degrees and sounds like a big deal. Not the case.



It is easy to make things bigger later if you just cannot stand the way it runs.

But if you go too far the first time around, then you have an interesting lamp, or a fish tank.



Lynn E. Hanover



Two scavenge suction lines on the left. Aux pressure line to the front main bearing on the right.