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Originally Posted by gorockrx' post='819213' date='May 14 2006, 07:04 PM
Other than the issues listed....how does the porting work look for my first time....? See anything else to improve? |
Thanks...I did some more work on it tonight...just finishing touches...I think it will survive long enough to be worth it..
I will try to match the rear plate to this one.... Still unsure what to do with the center plate....the primaries I want to keep small for the automatic tranny situation.... Is that a bad idea? Should I match ALL the intakes the same? Should I do the exhaust too on an auto tranny car with stock turbos? By the way..my avatar is actually the car I am repairing....for what it's worth... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png |
Originally Posted by gorockrx' post='819212' date='May 14 2006, 07:02 PM
OK, Here is a picture after trying what you suggested... [attachment=38158:attachment] There is a very small bit of support all the way around.... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png The oil control rings wiped the surface clean though......you can see the path of everything except the corner since I didn't put springs in...but I did put a spring on the side seal to get a good wipe.... Hard to hold on the gear and turn it around without falling out of the gear...when doing that by hand.. What do you think of what you see there? The ports look fine. The radius if it was as on a drawing might be expressed as "Break all edges .010". Just the absense of sharp corner that might catch a new side seal. If you could run your finger over that edge at 100 MPH it should not hurt. That smooth at the edge. Radius of the edge beyond the .010" is just fine and I do that, but it is to improve flow. The idea of using the side seal spring with the end bent up at a 90 degree angle, is that it will scribe a nice crisp line through the black ink on the iron. Thus showing off the track of the leading and trailing ends of the side seals. No side seal is installed for this idea. Just a corner seal with no pring under it. And a side seal spring. You mount the iron on an engine stand and install a stationary gear and a rotor and a crank. You set the rotor on the iron so that the corner seal is say, 2 inches from the port. Turn thr crank so that the cornaer seal crosses the port from one direction. If the seal is unsupported, the end of the spring will pop out into the port, and will get hung up on the far side. So, you lift the rotor off and replace it 2" beyond the port and turn the crank the other way with the bent up end of the spring reversed in the groove so as to complete the scribed line for that end of the seal. Now repeat the whole thing with the spring in the groove on the oposite side of that corner seal. No side seal is installed during this operation. You end up with two scribe marks. One is the path of the leading end of all of the side seals. The other is the path of the trailing ends of all of the side seals. I think you interest is in full throttle performance. I would leave the primaries stock. It will run just fine. Lynn E. Hanover |
Originally Posted by Lynn E. Hanover' post='819237' date='May 14 2006, 08:30 PM
The ports look fine. The radius if it was as on a drawing might be expressed as "Break all edges .010". Just the absense of sharp corner that might catch a new side seal. If you could run your finger over that edge at 100 MPH it should not hurt. That smooth at the edge. Radius of the edge beyond the .010" is just fine and I do that, but it is to improve flow. The idea of using the side seal spring with the end bent up at a 90 degree angle, is that it will scribe a nice crisp line through the black ink on the iron. Thus showing off the track of the leading and trailing ends of the side seals. No side seal is installed for this idea. Just a corner seal with no pring under it. And a side seal spring. You mount the iron on an engine stand and install a stationary gear and a rotor and a crank. You set the rotor on the iron so that the corner seal is say, 2 inches from the port. Turn thr crank so that the cornaer seal crosses the port from one direction. If the seal is unsupported, the end of the spring will pop out into the port, and will get hung up on the far side. So, you lift the rotor off and replace it 2" beyond the port and turn the crank the other way with the bent up end of the spring reversed in the groove so as to complete the scribed line for that end of the seal. Now repeat the whole thing with the spring in the groove on the oposite side of that corner seal. No side seal is installed during this operation. You end up with two scribe marks. One is the path of the leading end of all of the side seals. The other is the path of the trailing ends of all of the side seals. I think you interest is in full throttle performance. I would leave the primaries stock. It will run just fine. Lynn E. Hanover Thanks a LOT Lynn... As always, you provide excellent information and give helpful advice to others with a good attitude... I really appreciate what you do.... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/bigthumb.gif You would think after owning 9 RX7's over the last 15 years that I would have already tackled this...but I did everything to stock specs only for many years....no porting or aftermarket anything.... Anyway....I couldn't perform that check today because I don't have ANY of the bearings installed and I couldn't put the crank in there....so I just did a fast check by hand....probably not as accurate, but very close. I still have to install the Rotor and Stat Gear bearings...finish the porting and checking to see if the seals will be supported ect... Then on to cleaning all the parts again and clearancing the rotors/housings and the e-shaft and bearings...I hope they go in straight.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png ...and then final assembly of the block. What do you use for polishing the e-shaft? and how do you keep everything perfectly round...ect Like the bearing journals in the rotors and the shaft itself? I was thinking of just doing the usual cleaning of the rotor bearing journals and using the red locktite as you recommend and just pressing them in...then clearance everything.... |
Originally Posted by gorockrx' post='819245' date='May 14 2006, 08:48 PM
Thanks a LOT Lynn... As always, you provide excellent information and give helpful advice to others with a good attitude... I really appreciate what you do.... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/bigthumb.gif You would think after owning 9 RX7's over the last 15 years that I would have already tackled this...but I did everything to stock specs only for many years....no porting or aftermarket anything.... Anyway....I couldn't perform that check today because I don't have ANY of the bearings installed and I couldn't put the crank in there....so I just did a fast check by hand....probably not as accurate, but very close. I still have to install the Rotor and Stat Gear bearings...finish the porting and checking to see if the seals will be supported ect... Then on to cleaning all the parts again and clearancing the rotors/housings and the e-shaft and bearings...I hope they go in straight.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png ...and then final assembly of the block. What do you use for polishing the e-shaft? and how do you keep everything perfectly round...ect Like the bearing journals in the rotors and the shaft itself? I was thinking of just doing the usual cleaning of the rotor bearing journals and using the red locktite as you recommend and just pressing them in...then clearance everything.... Be sure to grind off the alignment tabs before pressing in the rotor bearings. You only need Locktite if you have honed out the rotors to increase bearing to crank clearance. In fact Locktite and 4 or 6 little screws to keep the bearing located. While it is easier to press in the bearing with Locktite on it, (so long as you keep it moving) it is hell to get it out come replacement time. I chuck up the crank in the lathe and just by hand using ATF and 400 grit Wet or Dry paper (silicone carbide paper) just squeeze the paper onto the crank journals and let it run for a few seconds. It comes out like chrome. There is no chance at all that you could take off anything but dirt and stains doing this. The crank surface is harder than Chinese arithemetic. A very thorough cleaning at the car wash is required after using an abrasive trick like this. The only change I would make to a street engine, is that I would scrape the front of the rear main bearing down to the copper for the first 1/8". I know this could not happen, but should someone steal the car and scream the engine, (I know you would not do this) the crank will flex a bit and the front of the rear main will get a shine to it. Or, it will get a bit of a weld going and spin the bearing. The alignment tab is there so as to LINE up the oil hole. The tab will not keep it from spinning. So even if it just moves a few degrees, the oil hole is shut off and that will take out the engine, as that shuts off oil to the rotor bearing. (a widowed bearing in a grooved stationary gear will keep oiling should this happen) So, if that problem 1/8" is reduced during the build, it can never weld up anything. No other changes beyond stock are required for street use at or below the redline. Lynn E. Hanover |
Originally Posted by Lynn E. Hanover' post='819269' date='May 15 2006, 04:28 AM
Be sure to grind off the alignment tabs before pressing in the rotor bearings. You only need Locktite if you have honed out the rotors to increase bearing to crank clearance. In fact Locktite and 4 or 6 little screws to keep the bearing located. While it is easier to press in the bearing with Locktite on it, (so long as you keep it moving) it is hell to get it out come replacement time. I chuck up the crank in the lathe and just by hand using ATF and 400 grit Wet or Dry paper (silicone carbide paper) just squeeze the paper onto the crank journals and let it run for a few seconds. It comes out like chrome. There is no chance at all that you could take off anything but dirt and stains doing this. The crank surface is harder than Chinese arithemetic. A very thorough cleaning at the car wash is required after using an abrasive trick like this. The only change I would make to a street engine, is that I would scrape the front of the rear main bearing down to the copper for the first 1/8". I know this could not happen, but should someone steal the car and scream the engine, (I know you would not do this) the crank will flex a bit and the front of the rear main will get a shine to it. Or, it will get a bit of a weld going and spin the bearing. The alignment tab is there so as to LINE up the oil hole. The tab will not keep it from spinning. So even if it just moves a few degrees, the oil hole is shut off and that will take out the engine, as that shuts off oil to the rotor bearing. (a widowed bearing in a grooved stationary gear will keep oiling should this happen) So, if that problem 1/8" is reduced during the build, it can never weld up anything. No other changes beyond stock are required for street use at or below the redline. Lynn E. Hanover That was a windowed rear bearing, not a "widowed" bearing. Sorry. Lynn E. Hanover |
Thanks Lynn....trying to get it back together now....I have read most of your tips over the last year or so reading through the forum...just gathering a few extra tips while I am finishing up this engine.
It looks like I may be moving to Huntsville AL very shortly..so I will be needing to get the car back together ASAP! |
Originally Posted by Lynn E. Hanover' post='819269' date='May 15 2006, 04:28 AM
Be sure to grind off the alignment tabs before pressing in the rotor bearings. You only need Locktite if you have honed out the rotors to increase bearing to crank clearance. In fact Locktite and 4 or 6 little screws to keep the bearing located. While it is easier to press in the bearing with Locktite on it, (so long as you keep it moving) it is hell to get it out come replacement time. I chuck up the crank in the lathe and just by hand using ATF and 400 grit Wet or Dry paper (silicone carbide paper) just squeeze the paper onto the crank journals and let it run for a few seconds. It comes out like chrome. There is no chance at all that you could take off anything but dirt and stains doing this. The crank surface is harder than Chinese arithemetic. A very thorough cleaning at the car wash is required after using an abrasive trick like this. The only change I would make to a street engine, is that I would scrape the front of the rear main bearing down to the copper for the first 1/8". I know this could not happen, but should someone steal the car and scream the engine, (I know you would not do this) the crank will flex a bit and the front of the rear main will get a shine to it. Or, it will get a bit of a weld going and spin the bearing. The alignment tab is there so as to LINE up the oil hole. The tab will not keep it from spinning. So even if it just moves a few degrees, the oil hole is shut off and that will take out the engine, as that shuts off oil to the rotor bearing. (a widowed bearing in a grooved stationary gear will keep oiling should this happen) So, if that problem 1/8" is reduced during the build, it can never weld up anything. No other changes beyond stock are required for street use at or below the redline. Lynn E. Hanover Well...more interesting information... I have never heard of the trick of scraping down the front of the rear main bearing before. Sounds logical though.....the automatic FD that this engine is in will most likely never see above 7.5k rpm though.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png SO...what you are saying about the locktite...is that it is not really needed unless honing (sanding) the bore? I was told to use it on all of the bearings by a "rotary" shop, but of course there was no mention of honing the bores out etc... I was thinking of cleaning them out, but I don't see how I can keep it perfectly round when sanding anyway....I don't have the proper tools...I think I will just install the new ones and check the clearances.... I have also not actually had to clearance a bearing before, so what do you use for that without scraping too much material off and getting down into the copper? I would also love to get the e-shaft polished, but I don't have a lathe.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png Sounds like a great way to do it though.. Last....do you think that the oil control ring path is going to be a problem on this porting? Yes, there may be a small bit of smoking at times, but since I am using the full viton o-rings.....will they wear much faster and therefore shorten the life of the engine? I am thinking of saving these housings for a more performance oriented engine...and using stockers for this rebuild....I just have to find the front and rear plates off an auto though...with less than .001 wear etc.... Thanks for all the advice and tips... |
Originally Posted by gorockrx' post='819447' date='May 15 2006, 09:47 PM
Well...more interesting information... I have never heard of the trick of scraping down the front of the rear main bearing before. Sounds logical though.....the automatic FD that this engine is in will most likely never see above 7.5k rpm though.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png SO...what you are saying about the locktite...is that it is not really needed unless honing (sanding) the bore? I was told to use it on all of the bearings by a "rotary" shop, but of course there was no mention of honing the bores out etc... I was thinking of cleaning them out, but I don't see how I can keep it perfectly round when sanding anyway....I don't have the proper tools...I think I will just install the new ones and check the clearances.... I have also not actually had to clearance a bearing before, so what do you use for that without scraping too much material off and getting down into the copper? I would also love to get the e-shaft polished, but I don't have a lathe.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png Sounds like a great way to do it though.. Last....do you think that the oil control ring path is going to be a problem on this porting? Yes, there may be a small bit of smoking at times, but since I am using the full viton o-rings.....will they wear much faster and therefore shorten the life of the engine? I am thinking of saving these housings for a more performance oriented engine...and using stockers for this rebuild....I just have to find the front and rear plates off an auto though...with less than .001 wear etc.... Thanks for all the advice and tips... I don't think the oil control path will be a problem. You can polish the crank by hand, it just takes a long time. The scraper "O" rings just seal the scrapers to the rotor, they are not exposed to much wear at all, and should last longer than the car. There are two scraper rings, and they both work rather well. Fuel condenses on the walls of the chamber (irons) and the scraper ring runs over that and the oil film, and pumps it into the crankcase. so, you get oil dilution with fuel to a greater extent than a piston engine. Mazda Comp's old book had you grinding the crank smaller over half of the journal. Not a practical answer for most people. Scraping the bearing does the same thing for free. The bearing overlay (the grey stuff) is about .0015" thick. So just sanding it off and running on the copper is one way to get a racing clearance. (for rotor bearings). Look at Paul Yaw's site. WWW.yawpower.com He machines the overlay out on a mill. Old ford truck engines ran on copper bearings, no indium overlay. Just a bit harder on the crank. The rotary crank is surface hardened, and can do well running on copper. All of this is for wide open racing, and will only cost oil pressure on a street engine. Lynn E. Hanover |
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