Judge Ito

Perfect picture here of sideseal damage when the closing edge of an aggresive streetport is NOT TAPERED OFF. After members are done reading this thread don't forget to pass by and check out my new thread addressing this problem in the "large streetport sideseal clearancing" thread.

BDC

Basically the same principle behind tapering and bevelling the closing timing edge of the exhaust port, correct?



B

Fluid Dynamics

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS ****!!



What a waste. The rotary community needs more small shops who can do acceptable work. Here is an AMATEUR port, first engine ever done . . . Do these rotary shops who claim to have a history of making successful racing engines actually respect QUALITY and think about what they are doing when they have the grinder in their hands?

boost_creep

This is getting out of hand the number of big name shops getting into this kind of deception stuff. And people still send stuff out to get engines done. This stuff hurts to see the level of funds these guys here spent to get this kind of **** back. Excuse me I am angry.

Saisoku

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Although I don't have any experience building rotary engines, I have tons of experience with two-stroke roadracing motorcycle engines, and that is one of the most BASIC elements of porting on large openings. I cannot believe that any shop worth their salt would let something like this go out the door. And I've been reading all the extremely poor customer follow-ups with PR; that, IMO, is totally unacceptable, especially for the money spent on these engines.



Needless to say, I'll be looking elsewhere for my rebuild.

pp13bnos

To be honest, I don't realy come over here very often, so sorry for the late reply. This is probably my 3rd time over here in 12 months. (Thus the 2 posts) But anyways, I'm very good friends with Rob, and have had many business deals with him. Infact I've gaven him a hand in his old shop many a time. (When he was the only one building engines.) When I've gaven him a hand in his shop in the past, I must say, he was nothing less than an artist when it came to port work...and he's very secretive of his port work. Wich I can understand. Alot of his motors have put down some serious hp over the years. Bill Burnhams 3 rotor drag car, Ralph Friends FD (Xcesive on the other forum.) running 32+psi on the street, Jasons FD, Nocabs, and even my little ol' n/a 90 that put down 167rwhp on a mustang dyno.....and a bunch of others. So I don't think that the port work should come into question. He knows what he's doing. (I'm not shure if banz.s was that even ported?)



I have'nt talked to Rob about this, or anything else like this....but my guess is that there was such a large jump in volume of motors going out, that quality control was unfortunetly let down. For how long? I don't know. Will I ever ask? Probably not. But be honest...how many motors have turned up being pos? 4....6...maybe 8? None of this stuff, I heard from a friend, that his buddys engine let go.... If you're building 15+ motors a week, you're bound at some point to screw up one or two. Maybe thats what happend to -10 line banz....maybe somone else got a free stage 2 oil mod or something. Or maybe someone got a free set of 3mm apex seals, when they only wanted 2mm ones? Rob is only human afterall, and his employees.



Also, you have to understand, when a motor lets go, the finger is allways pointed to someone else. No one wants to take the blame. Maybe someone, forgot to put a quart of oil down the oil filter base? Maybe someone sucked something through the motor that they are'nt telling us about.....or that one time it did get hot...but it was only for a few minutes....I'm shure no one will ever know. I've seen alot of engines like this, that the customer failed to mention. Just remember, there is allways two sides to each story.



As far as my personal warentees with Rob, I have had to use them a couple times. The first time was when I had my efi peripheral port motor in my repu. From day one there was a slight vibration way up in the RPMs. I had Rob drive out, and take a look at it. After a quick test drive, he came to the conlusion the E-shaft was bent. He fixed it, and within a week it was back on the road. No$$ out of my pocket. Anouther time was with a 12a peripheral port. I ran around for two days without a fan belt on. I got the motor hot, and flattend every apex seal in the engine. I told him what I did, and I paid for parts. After all, it was my fault....but the nice thing was, is that he coverd the time. The last time was a instance with a carbed 13B peripheral and alot of nitrous. Basically, I got alot of detination, and cracked the rear steel, under the oil filter base. Once again, I told him what I did, and he coverd labor, and I coverd parts. Bottom line is, I came away very happy.



Anyways, I'll probably see Rob in a couple days. I'll ask him to take a look on the forums, and give him a chance to standup for himself. If you want to talk with me about Rob or anything else, I'm better contacted on the other forum. BTW, as you can tell, I'm still a extremely happy customer of Robs. Later, CJ

jeff48920

I appreciate your loyalty to Rob and quite clearly, Rob's loyalty to you. However you have to admit that you have a special relationship with Rob and others in a similar position may not get the kind of service you experienced. However, you did get at least one engine that should not have left the shop (bent e-shaft). If you get that kind of quality assurance, I wonder what I would get. Rob has proven that he may be very capable of building great motors, but consistency is the issue and attention to detail is the goal. Warranties are best when you don't have to use them and disgusting pieces of deceptive garbage when either the restrictions (limitations) are excessive or the shop won't answer the phone. Warranties are BS when the consumer receives a letter from the shop's lawyer threatening the consumer with slander and libel legal actions for speaking about the dispute in open forums.

93BlackFD

^ my hero

l8t apex

Slander it must be proven that harm has come from intentional malice, unjust or false accusation of business or personal conduct .

Another problem, when doing business as seen here , business is many times considered as sales in your county and state especially with todays internet business.

In many states internet sales can have suits filed in the home court of the purchaser as provided by state law. (that becomes the shop's expensive bitch)Here in Louisiana I have filed against Delaware Corp. before.( not internet but oilfield)

God bless the Napoleanic code practiced here.My back yard and our style of law.



But in these cases above the clients should have proof of payment , shipping can be tracked and these shops are the ones with multiple complaints of the same nature of poor and nonfunctional service.Once lawyers get involved its more expensive for the shop to file and to defend against multiple parties each with their own rep and evidence . At minimum each person above should send a certified letter stating the damage and expect the harm/ damage incurred to be repaired and made whole again. Also BBB and each state has some watch dogs.

Once again....mail order motor repair is more likely to get poor work than a local.

Red Baron

CJ, I don't think that Rob's ability of building engines is in question.

Yes, he has built many high HP engines and far more good engines than bad ones.

Rob and his employees are human and careless mistakes, that could have been avoided are still going to happend, that is life.

The issue here is, he is selling you a product with warranty, that when it becomes applicable he does not stand behind the product he sold you.

He goes as far as avoiding contact from that point on. Before the sale, it was all extra attention and answering all questions.

It is so much easier and cheaper to accept a mistake, fixed it and go on with life. The good public relations go so much further than trying to fight the bad experiance, hear say and loss of future business.

Remember that a happy customer might tell a few of his good experiance, but an angry/upset cutomer will tell the world.

I hope that Rob answers or comment on what has been said here.

For my next engine I was thinking of sending it to him, but now I'm having second thoughts about it.