9k Redline, How To Prepare Discussion
05-14-2004, 06:21 AM
#21
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 568
Originally Posted by mazdaspeed7' date='May 13 2004, 05:30 PM
If I could go back and do it all again, I would have left my car completely stock
Once you change one thing, you start a vicous cycle where it will need something else to be changed or modified, then another.
Once you change one thing, you start a vicous cycle where it will need something else to be changed or modified, then another.
I should have just got a set of rims
05-14-2004, 06:50 AM
#22
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Location: Okinawa, Japan
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Originally Posted by DUB' date='May 14 2004, 04:26 AM
thanks for the input...okay so stocker twins (&manifolds) are the biggest bottle neck in my case.
What I'm gathering is...the internals should be good to 9k, please correct me if I'm wrong.
What I'm gathering is...the internals should be good to 9k, please correct me if I'm wrong.
05-14-2004, 08:50 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by jspecracer7' date='May 14 2004, 07:50 AM
As mazdaspeed7 has stated, limiting factor is the turbos, not the engine. My stock engine would go to 8500~ all the time with the 62-1 from turbonetics. Stock twins however fell flat after 7500~
what PSI were you running with the stockers?
I can't wait to see some #'s on the BNR upgraded twins. I saw what goes into these puppies first hand, and all I can say is...impressive!
I was at a dyno meet in Alabama, and Bryan (I believe) was running the 62-1, someone laid SPOauto's stage III's 400wrhp plot over a run Bryan made and the plots were IDENTICAL...of course with more tuning the single made ~30 or so more ponies, but point being these new upgraded twins should be amazing.
05-14-2004, 01:56 PM
#24
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
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Originally Posted by mazdaspeed7' date='May 13 2004, 01:30 PM
. Im getting close to the drivability of a stock car now, with considerably more power, but there is not a single thing I havent modified, changed, tweaked, or replaced to get there.
04-14-2005, 06:09 PM
#25
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 62
Like the beggining of this thread stated, I neither have been able to find any strait up lists of things to modify for high rpm operation of these engines. I've been searching for about 3 days now thru these forums. I have an '85 12a engine that i personally would like to see hit 10,000 rpm. I'm an engineering studne and will bein doing paid internships, so $ up to mabe 2.5 to 3 K shouldn't be a problem. I've heard about hardened stationary and/or ring gears are nessesary. What kind of apel seals are reccommended? What will need clearancing and how much of a port job is required to make it worth it. I will probobly be doing a custom exhaust work...mabe a true duel tube exhaust. 1 thing is that im working with the constraints that it needs to be road legal.
04-14-2005, 10:32 PM
#26
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
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[quote name='laundryhamperman' date='Apr 14 2005, 03:09 PM']Like the beggining of this thread stated, I neither have been able to find any strait up lists of things to modify for high rpm operation of these engines. I've been searching for about 3 days now thru these forums. I have an '85 12a engine that i personally would like to see hit 10,000 rpm. I'm an engineering studne and will bein doing paid internships, so $ up to mabe 2.5 to 3 K shouldn't be a problem. I've heard about hardened stationary and/or ring gears are nessesary. What kind of apel seals are reccommended? What will need clearancing and how much of a port job is required to make it worth it. I will probobly be doing a custom exhaust work...mabe a true duel tube exhaust. 1 thing is that im working with the constraints that it needs to be road legal.
[/quote]
with a 12a, to spin that fast you prolly need to balance and lighten everything, hardened gears are a must for reliability.
back in the old days they were using the mazda carbon seals, these survive high rpms but dont live a long time and dont seal as well as steel, steel doesnt like super high rpms. ceramic seals seal and live but they are $$$$.
this also doesnt address the main problem, you need decent ports to make power that high....
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with a 12a, to spin that fast you prolly need to balance and lighten everything, hardened gears are a must for reliability.
back in the old days they were using the mazda carbon seals, these survive high rpms but dont live a long time and dont seal as well as steel, steel doesnt like super high rpms. ceramic seals seal and live but they are $$$$.
this also doesnt address the main problem, you need decent ports to make power that high....
04-15-2005, 09:05 AM
#27
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 62
Bridge ports? so there aren't really seals that will operate this fast that are reliable? or do carbon seals last longer, seal well, and are high rpm friendly?
I will probobly send my rotors and housings to J.H.B. Performance and Engineering to have them coated with their ceramics. What about the seals that J.H.B. offer with the services to the engine?
I will probobly send my rotors and housings to J.H.B. Performance and Engineering to have them coated with their ceramics. What about the seals that J.H.B. offer with the services to the engine?
04-15-2005, 03:07 PM
#29
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 186
[quote name='laundryhamperman' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:09 PM']Like the beggining of this thread stated, I neither have been able to find any strait up lists of things to modify for high rpm operation of these engines. I've been searching for about 3 days now thru these forums. I have an '85 12a engine that i personally would like to see hit 10,000 rpm. I'm an engineering studne and will bein doing paid internships, so $ up to mabe 2.5 to 3 K shouldn't be a problem. I've heard about hardened stationary and/or ring gears are nessesary. What kind of apel seals are reccommended? What will need clearancing and how much of a port job is required to make it worth it. I will probobly be doing a custom exhaust work...mabe a true duel tube exhaust. 1 thing is that im working with the constraints that it needs to be road legal.
[/quote]
Road legal and a rotary that makes power to 10,000rpm's should not be in the same paragraph. Yes you can have a rotary on the street that can spin to 10g's but is it making power there I doubt it. Depending on the state you live in is a major concern because your engine is going to need to breath and it won't like restrictions it will be loud. Another thing is the pitch/tone of a 12A is higher than a 13B especially if your going with a N/A motor. Now to answer some of your questions yes your going to need hardened stationary gears, race rotor & main bearings. What needs to be clearanced is all your seals and bearings in the motor and if the motor is going to be running over 8500rpms continuously get the rotors race clearanced and get the side gears snap ringed. Also get the complete rotating assembly balanced. Your going to have to do some extensive work on the oiling system. Apex seals don't even waste your time with stockers you will have to either use carbon or ceramic with ceramic being my choice if you are driving on the streets. Port work your looking into a big brigde port which will not last long on the steet because you have to cut back into the seal and eventually it will leak looking to last about 6 month's before the sealant gives. Your other choice would be a periferal port is you've got the ***** to drive it on the steets. And if you want to get estimates on the pricing for all this look on Mazdatrix or Racing Beat's sites and they will give you a rough estimate because I won't sit here and give you all the price breakdowns. And oh yeah it will cost you more than 2.5 to 3K to put everything together. That's talking igntion, fuel system, injection or carburation, and one hell of an exhaust to keep the noise down and allow it to breath. Hell I have a borla and a huge flowmaster, the biggest one they make, on my steetport 13b and it's still loud. Good luck with your motor.
[snapback]699864[/snapback]
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Road legal and a rotary that makes power to 10,000rpm's should not be in the same paragraph. Yes you can have a rotary on the street that can spin to 10g's but is it making power there I doubt it. Depending on the state you live in is a major concern because your engine is going to need to breath and it won't like restrictions it will be loud. Another thing is the pitch/tone of a 12A is higher than a 13B especially if your going with a N/A motor. Now to answer some of your questions yes your going to need hardened stationary gears, race rotor & main bearings. What needs to be clearanced is all your seals and bearings in the motor and if the motor is going to be running over 8500rpms continuously get the rotors race clearanced and get the side gears snap ringed. Also get the complete rotating assembly balanced. Your going to have to do some extensive work on the oiling system. Apex seals don't even waste your time with stockers you will have to either use carbon or ceramic with ceramic being my choice if you are driving on the streets. Port work your looking into a big brigde port which will not last long on the steet because you have to cut back into the seal and eventually it will leak looking to last about 6 month's before the sealant gives. Your other choice would be a periferal port is you've got the ***** to drive it on the steets. And if you want to get estimates on the pricing for all this look on Mazdatrix or Racing Beat's sites and they will give you a rough estimate because I won't sit here and give you all the price breakdowns. And oh yeah it will cost you more than 2.5 to 3K to put everything together. That's talking igntion, fuel system, injection or carburation, and one hell of an exhaust to keep the noise down and allow it to breath. Hell I have a borla and a huge flowmaster, the biggest one they make, on my steetport 13b and it's still loud. Good luck with your motor.
