Porsche 911
08-04-2003, 08:52 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Close enough to annoy you.
Posts: 1,381
Drive a 911 of around the same year or generation before you buy any of them. You may or may not like the way they handle and the "feel" of the car. Especially if it's air cooled.
If you find someone nice enough that'll let you really get on it in a corner (preferably in an area where you can't hit anything) do it.
If you find someone nice enough that'll let you really get on it in a corner (preferably in an area where you can't hit anything) do it.
08-05-2003, 09:44 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Close enough to annoy you.
Posts: 1,381
This guy is off his nut in several areas. The VW was created the way it was due to cost constraints, Hitlers mandate that all parts on the car be of German design (which is why the original bug has cable brakes and not hydraulic, hydrauilc brakes were available at the time but were make by Bendix a british company) and the desire to have the car run no matter where in the world it was placed be in the high mountains or the desert without having to fuss about messing with coolant and such.
The cam issue is all about geometry, has nothing to do with being "clever" as this guy puts it. Porsche moved to overhead cams in later years, still using the flat 6 air cooled engine. They did have one design of that ilk that was truely horrid.
Swingaxels and torsion bars were what Dr Porsche used due to cost or a lack of development. In 1940 when the Bug was first build CV joints were rather esoteric and odd...I think the only car to have used them was the Cord. Torison bars were chosen becuase they're hard as hell to break and are easy to put together and maintain. Dunno where he gets the notion they are hard to build, I can rebuild a set in about an hour if I have all the parts and don't have to weld anything which does happen once in a blue moon. Oh wait the lynch pin does like to strip out on occasion, must be a bad design toss it out!
VW didn't change from air cooling for any other reason then smog laws and the fact that the more HP you draw from it, the more heat and the more complicated the air cooling becomes.
As for head studs pulling out, I guess the idiot that built this guys engine ever heard of deck height and making sure it's not over the limit. I can count on one hand all the engines I've had to rebuild and add case savers to, usually again because the engine was built poorly or the oil cooler failed.
Yes #3 cylinder gets hotter then the rest. Yes VW fixed that in 1969 with the "dog house" style cooler.
He's treating the VW as if it should be a high peformance monster which it is not and was not meant to be. The car was made cheap, supposed to be cheap and easy to work on which they are. They're also not as slow as some would make them out to be. Not fast, but certainly not the slug.
He's comparing apples and oranges.
As far as rear engine cars being a pain to drive they certainly can be. As I said make sure you drive it before you buy it you may not like the way it handles. Usually you can get a 911 to 90% of it's capacity with no problems but that last 10% is going to be one hell of a ride.
Kinda like the Viper.
He also rants on about the engine having to be pulled out and that somehow his horrible. Such is the life of an air cooled engine...or a ferrari that you have to pull out to change spark plugs. It's easy to pull because of it's design not out of necessity. As such why bother making parts so you can pull it out with the engine in when you can get it out easily?
Having worked on these cars off and on for the last 12 years I can say this guy is only half right and that half applies to ANY CAR you get. I mean I could rant about the 2nd gen for it's electrical problems and any rotary for it's lack of torque or if you overheat it YOU HAVE TO PULL THE ENGINE AND REBUILD IT! OHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Dolt.
The cam issue is all about geometry, has nothing to do with being "clever" as this guy puts it. Porsche moved to overhead cams in later years, still using the flat 6 air cooled engine. They did have one design of that ilk that was truely horrid.
Swingaxels and torsion bars were what Dr Porsche used due to cost or a lack of development. In 1940 when the Bug was first build CV joints were rather esoteric and odd...I think the only car to have used them was the Cord. Torison bars were chosen becuase they're hard as hell to break and are easy to put together and maintain. Dunno where he gets the notion they are hard to build, I can rebuild a set in about an hour if I have all the parts and don't have to weld anything which does happen once in a blue moon. Oh wait the lynch pin does like to strip out on occasion, must be a bad design toss it out!
VW didn't change from air cooling for any other reason then smog laws and the fact that the more HP you draw from it, the more heat and the more complicated the air cooling becomes.
As for head studs pulling out, I guess the idiot that built this guys engine ever heard of deck height and making sure it's not over the limit. I can count on one hand all the engines I've had to rebuild and add case savers to, usually again because the engine was built poorly or the oil cooler failed.
Yes #3 cylinder gets hotter then the rest. Yes VW fixed that in 1969 with the "dog house" style cooler.
He's treating the VW as if it should be a high peformance monster which it is not and was not meant to be. The car was made cheap, supposed to be cheap and easy to work on which they are. They're also not as slow as some would make them out to be. Not fast, but certainly not the slug.
He's comparing apples and oranges.
As far as rear engine cars being a pain to drive they certainly can be. As I said make sure you drive it before you buy it you may not like the way it handles. Usually you can get a 911 to 90% of it's capacity with no problems but that last 10% is going to be one hell of a ride.
Kinda like the Viper.
He also rants on about the engine having to be pulled out and that somehow his horrible. Such is the life of an air cooled engine...or a ferrari that you have to pull out to change spark plugs. It's easy to pull because of it's design not out of necessity. As such why bother making parts so you can pull it out with the engine in when you can get it out easily?
Having worked on these cars off and on for the last 12 years I can say this guy is only half right and that half applies to ANY CAR you get. I mean I could rant about the 2nd gen for it's electrical problems and any rotary for it's lack of torque or if you overheat it YOU HAVE TO PULL THE ENGINE AND REBUILD IT! OHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Dolt.
08-05-2003, 10:46 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
yeah i agree rd, he misses the point a little. its not like they had the resources after ww2 do do anything other than the bug, and then it started selling.
also he's and engineer, if he worked for amana making dishwashers we'd be hearing about how they dont use the right seal or something.
also he doesnt see the larger picture, the 917 is aircooled because ferrari said it would never work, and they proved him wrong
mike
also he's and engineer, if he worked for amana making dishwashers we'd be hearing about how they dont use the right seal or something.
also he doesnt see the larger picture, the 917 is aircooled because ferrari said it would never work, and they proved him wrong
mike
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