Rotary in a custom-built car?
09-02-2002, 11:55 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5
Hi everyone,
I'm working on a project to build a car from the ground up - space frame, fiberglass body etc. Until now I have settled on using a SBC for my engine (cost, availablity of aftermarket add-ons). Anyway, I think the rotary has way more character and would be fun to play with. However I have virtually no experience with this animal so I was hoping that you could give me an experienced point of view.
Application:
* 2 door, rear engine, RWD GT style car
* used as a weekend cruiser / occasional 1/4mile drag. Basically fast enough so I won't be laughed at on the track but reliable enough that I can use it on the street. 12-13 sec 1/4miles would be ideal
* target weight is 2000-2300lbs (or so)
* my budget for the drivetrain (engine/tranny/clutch) is about $10-12K. guess this can be adjusted since I really like the idea of having a rotary.
I will be doing most of the work myself but since this is more of a childhood dream, the time it will take is irrelevant.
So finally my question:
Is this possible with a rotary?And if so, can you give me links where I can start/learn?
I apologize for my igorance but a lot of sites I run into have detailed "how to's" but not the overall capabilities or specs of the engines. I also prefer to not deal with the larger companies yet because I don't really know what I'm doing (in respect to the drivetrain) and I'm not ready to buy.
Thanks in advance,
Filip
If you're curious, I have put up a site that just touches on my project-
http://www.statikdesign.com/scratchbuilt
I'm working on a project to build a car from the ground up - space frame, fiberglass body etc. Until now I have settled on using a SBC for my engine (cost, availablity of aftermarket add-ons). Anyway, I think the rotary has way more character and would be fun to play with. However I have virtually no experience with this animal so I was hoping that you could give me an experienced point of view.
Application:
* 2 door, rear engine, RWD GT style car
* used as a weekend cruiser / occasional 1/4mile drag. Basically fast enough so I won't be laughed at on the track but reliable enough that I can use it on the street. 12-13 sec 1/4miles would be ideal
* target weight is 2000-2300lbs (or so)
* my budget for the drivetrain (engine/tranny/clutch) is about $10-12K. guess this can be adjusted since I really like the idea of having a rotary.
I will be doing most of the work myself but since this is more of a childhood dream, the time it will take is irrelevant.
So finally my question:
Is this possible with a rotary?And if so, can you give me links where I can start/learn?
I apologize for my igorance but a lot of sites I run into have detailed "how to's" but not the overall capabilities or specs of the engines. I also prefer to not deal with the larger companies yet because I don't really know what I'm doing (in respect to the drivetrain) and I'm not ready to buy.
Thanks in advance,
Filip
If you're curious, I have put up a site that just touches on my project-
http://www.statikdesign.com/scratchbuilt
09-03-2002, 12:07 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,467
Welcome, first of all, nice to have you here. I would imagine a rotary engine could easily be utilized. You would have to adapt some kind of trans axle to the engine, probably from a foreign exotic. A turbo rotary would really make a nice addition, although r&d on the application will be extensive im sure.
09-03-2002, 04:34 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Posts: 9,725
Contact rx-midget @ ursnoozin@aol.com
He has a MG Vert with a 13b I believe or maybe it was 12a .In any case your plan should work fine. It's not the first time it's been done. With some searching you should be able to address each and every question you may have.
Hope that helps some .
Good Luck
He has a MG Vert with a 13b I believe or maybe it was 12a .In any case your plan should work fine. It's not the first time it's been done. With some searching you should be able to address each and every question you may have.
Hope that helps some .
Good Luck
09-03-2002, 06:45 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Westminster, MD
Posts: 368
Hey, I'm back!!! Thanks Fd3BOOST!
Anyhow, Filip - your project sounds like it is very do-able. The only thing that I see kinda "off" is your target weight. If you stick to the Colin Chapman (Lotus) method of construction, you could build a car that is 1/2 of what you listed. However, Chapmans cars only lasted 1 lap more than the race B), so I'd say you could get it down to 1500 - 1700 lbs and have better reliability.
I took a quick look at your site. I'd go with a tube frame car (space frame) made from DOM steel and not Cro-Moly because DOM does not require stress relieving in a huge oven like Cro-Moly does when it is welded. My advice - buy a nice MIG welder ($1000 for a complete setup) and take a welding class and build you own chassis.
Use aluminum wherever you can for brackets and other small items.
To make a car faster, add lightness
For the rear engine - I think Racing Beat or Mazdatrix sells an adapter made by Kenedy to bolt a 13B to a VW trans axle. I think the use them in sand rails (drag racing dune buggies). There is another guy that had this setup a long time ago on this forum - I've been gone too long....
Oh, and my car is a MG Midget with a street ported 13B (1500 lbs, ~200hp) Best 1/4mi. et was a 13.6 It still need some tweeking, but 12's should be possible. I HAD a web site till AOL sent it into cyberspace
Good luck,
B.
Anyhow, Filip - your project sounds like it is very do-able. The only thing that I see kinda "off" is your target weight. If you stick to the Colin Chapman (Lotus) method of construction, you could build a car that is 1/2 of what you listed. However, Chapmans cars only lasted 1 lap more than the race B), so I'd say you could get it down to 1500 - 1700 lbs and have better reliability.
I took a quick look at your site. I'd go with a tube frame car (space frame) made from DOM steel and not Cro-Moly because DOM does not require stress relieving in a huge oven like Cro-Moly does when it is welded. My advice - buy a nice MIG welder ($1000 for a complete setup) and take a welding class and build you own chassis.
Use aluminum wherever you can for brackets and other small items.
To make a car faster, add lightness
For the rear engine - I think Racing Beat or Mazdatrix sells an adapter made by Kenedy to bolt a 13B to a VW trans axle. I think the use them in sand rails (drag racing dune buggies). There is another guy that had this setup a long time ago on this forum - I've been gone too long....
Oh, and my car is a MG Midget with a street ported 13B (1500 lbs, ~200hp) Best 1/4mi. et was a 13.6 It still need some tweeking, but 12's should be possible. I HAD a web site till AOL sent it into cyberspace
Good luck,
B.
09-03-2002, 09:30 AM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5
Thanks for the replies everyone, I appreciate the feedback.
RX-Midget,
If you are referring to the Lotus chassis style, then that's what I was planning on doing. However I wanted more that just the bare essentials in the car - A/C, power windows & doors, audio system, real glass etc. I'd like to be able to go out and drive around in the hot TX weather w/o problems That's why my weight was little high. I do agree with you though, I'd like to keep it as light as possible.
By the way I found a cached version of your website on Goodle (search for ursnoozin and aol). I got this url (should be one line in the browser):
http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:4dQGN...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
It doesn't have the pictures but at least it has the text and links to other sites.
Thanks for the info and tips! I'll check out the links that were posted to see if I can get a better idea of what this will involve.
RX-Midget,
If you are referring to the Lotus chassis style, then that's what I was planning on doing. However I wanted more that just the bare essentials in the car - A/C, power windows & doors, audio system, real glass etc. I'd like to be able to go out and drive around in the hot TX weather w/o problems
By the way I found a cached version of your website on Goodle (search for ursnoozin and aol). I got this url (should be one line in the browser):
http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:4dQGN...&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
It doesn't have the pictures but at least it has the text and links to other sites.
Thanks for the info and tips! I'll check out the links that were posted to see if I can get a better idea of what this will involve.
09-03-2002, 02:54 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 558
is it just me, or with 10-12K to invest in the drivetrain alone, you could have a beastly fast car? isnt it possible to pick up a brand new ported 13B for about 5k? which would leave you with5-7 for the trans and diff
09-03-2002, 03:21 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
Originally Posted by SoniX' date='Sep 3 2002, 12:54 PM
is it just me, or with 10-12K to invest in the drivetrain alone, you could have a beastly fast car? isnt it possible to pick up a brand new ported 13B for about 5k? which would leave you with5-7 for the trans and diff
mike
09-03-2002, 07:38 PM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5
As for my budget:
5k for the engine is about what I figured. Whether I go SBC crate or rotary...
I don't know what the trans will run me for a rotary, but a Porsche 930 tranny will be about 3K, and I expect the clutch to be about 1k (to handle all that HP). I don't know about rotaries but the fuel inj (TPI?) or carbs would run me about 500-1500 as well. That's around 10K and I don't think that it's a beast. On the other hand I know the least about enignes so I probably have something wrong.
5k for the engine is about what I figured. Whether I go SBC crate or rotary...
I don't know what the trans will run me for a rotary, but a Porsche 930 tranny will be about 3K, and I expect the clutch to be about 1k (to handle all that HP). I don't know about rotaries but the fuel inj (TPI?) or carbs would run me about 500-1500 as well. That's around 10K and I don't think that it's a beast. On the other hand I know the least about enignes so I probably have something wrong.