Baldy

If it wasn't in broad terms, you'd still be writing, amirite?

phinsup

Abso*******lutely!!!!!

Baldy

Reminds me of a teacher in high school. If you asked the right question, you could get her talking forever. Our classes were 90 minutes long. I had a classmate that would sit in the back and sleep. He would wake up occasionally, ask a question that he knew would get her going, and go back to sleep.

phinsup

Give me some credit I resisted the topic for several days.

GreyGT-C

so... what you are saying is, the Canadians are to blame?

phinsup

Blaming the US collapse on wars is like blaming the last thing you bought on your credit card on the fact that your credit card is over the limit. Catch my drift? Don't get me wrong the expense of our exploits abroad and our nation building all over the world is nothing to scoff at, we have troops in over 150 nations all over the globe, but it is not to blame entirely for the mess we are in. It is a part of the problem, but it's far more complicated then "we're broke cause we went to war in iraq" in fact it's pretty easy to figure just how big of a part of the problem it is The war in iraq and afghanistan have cost us almost 1.3 trillion, our national debt is nearing 15 trillion, so it's about 10% of the problem, a big percentage, but none the less not the entire cause (this is a very simplified equation, but you get the point). A government living beyond it's means is no different then you or I buying **** we can't afford and don't need via credit card. The US gov't is effectively the irresponsible guy with no job that charges up his credit card to the max and rather then giving up buying things he doesn't need, he just goes and gets another credit card.



DISCLAIMER: I'm referring to strictly the debt problem in this post, don't take this post out of context please. As we start to dive deeper into various factors it becomes far less "broad" if you catch my drift. Also it's worth noting that the recession, the crushing national debt, destruction of our dollar, lack of exports and manufacturing base are all valid topics to cover when getting into the specifics. Take any of them alone and they are all of great concern.

thatpoorguy

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAYMJnO9LBQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]

j9fd3s

i had a question, scooter. so while i agree that the US is/was rich due to being a huge manufacturer; 100years ago something like 80% of everything in the world was made here.



but i, and my dad, and my brother, have too much stuff! if anything i need to get rid of some things (anyone want my gijoe comics?), just to have room.



or to put it the other way, basically i buy food and gas.



so i guess the question is if everyone has too much stuff, do we even WANT to be a manufacturing economy? and if we don't what is the next step?

thatpoorguy

Since we're a part of the world market, we make more money for the country by exporting goods to other countries. If I'm not mistaken, this raises the value of the dollar because we have money coming in from other countries that more often than not have a higher value on their currency. It's all kind of fucked in general when you really think about it because you have back up little pieces of paper with other similar pieces of paper lol

phinsup

I typed up a huge post and then realized that for the purposes of this discussion anyone who read it would probably just get bored prior to completing the first paragraph, so I decided to bag that. I'll go quick and dirty.



Also Mike I know you have a pretty good understanding of the economy so I have a feeling that most of this topic is no news to you LOL





For the record, I didn't say US was rich 100 years ago due to it's manufacturing base. In fact that wouldn't at this point in time be my argument at all, but suffice to say I would argue that irresponsible monetary policy is the root of many of our woes.



IMO no solution presents itself until we reform our monetary policy, we cannot continue to trade in dollars that aren't backed by some asset, especially if we plan to compete in the global economy. It gives monetary authorities of the world too much power over the system and their citizenry. We're seeing this play out time and time again, nations of the world devalue their dollar at the expense of their citizenry forcing competing nations participating in the global economy to do the same if they wish to continue to compete.