Cryo Systems Compared
12-15-2003, 09:16 PM
#21
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9
Hey JT. I'm back... sorry bout that....
here's some answers to your questions...
How is that any different than nitrous spraying cars? Except for their smallest bottle lasts for 2min 20sec of continuous flow, so if an average spray lasts ~10 seconds thats ~14 shots. And Nitrous is ~3 per bottle, and at the average cost of nitrous ~$4/lb(x20lb bottle = $80) and CO2 is ~$15 (15lb bottle refill). Its just slightly more cost effective. And dont even get me started on the negatives of running nitrous the way that 95% of people run it. But thats for another lesson...
No, the ice reaches a steady state accumulation/melting with a thickness ~0.050". It creates a small amounts of water dropplets that do go into your intake, but it reduces carbon deposits, cools intake manifold, etc (normal water injection benefits, just on a smaller scale)
Um, no, when it is not running, it drives just like it normally would, no loss of performance when its passive.
The amount of water that is "ingested" by the engine from the condensation is peanuts compared to water injection
True, but the level of cooling you get is no where near that of this product, and a high-efficiency Intercooler is QUITE expensive, as we all know.
There is no damage done when this runs out. You just don't have the performance gains.
Let me know whatever questions I can answer, I'd be happy to. Just FYI I do not work for, get paid, or get any kickback from promoting this product. I just happen to be an engineer who beleives in it. And have a pretty good "in" with the pres and VP of the company. 
email me if you like or get me on IM or PM me. I'd be happy to answer any questions truthfully. I dont like magazine hype either.
I hope these answered your questions.
here's some answers to your questions...
you run out of CO2, OOPS! you car just lost 50hp(hot day summer time),
tidal wave of frozen slush
So you would have to re-tune it or drive it around like POOP till you get it refilled
but its spray mist, its not a river of cold water.
The amount of water that is "ingested" by the engine from the condensation is peanuts compared to water injection
All these require ONE NATURE element, that you dont need to refill, and its AIR.
True, but the level of cooling you get is no where near that of this product, and a high-efficiency Intercooler is QUITE expensive, as we all know.
not something that can run out and do damage.
This is one of those cases I hate being a shop owner, I just want some honest info, no knocking, just info, since some are ready to run out and buy with no research, we all have seen this on a lot of cars, packing it with ICE etc... ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE ENGINE.
email me if you like or get me on IM or PM me. I'd be happy to answer any questions truthfully. I dont like magazine hype either.
I hope these answered your questions.
12-15-2003, 09:23 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: union, new jersey
Posts: 8,079
QUOTE
So you would have to re-tune it or drive it around like POOP till you get it refilled
Um, no, when it is not running, it drives just like it normally would, no loss of performance when its passive.
So you would have to re-tune it or drive it around like POOP till you get it refilled
Um, no, when it is not running, it drives just like it normally would, no loss of performance when its passive.
when that thing runs out the car will run excessively rich.... since you would be tuning for cold air.
if you tune for normal air, and use that kit... hten you might run excessively lean... pop goes the wankel
12-16-2003, 12:51 AM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,342
Ok thanks for answering my questions.
Im lost on 1 thing though. You compared it to Nitrous
Nitrous, water etc.. injection are bursts.
Isnt this thing running all the time? That was my understanding. If not, how long does it take to start producing and cold air effect after its turned on? Then what happens when you turn it off or turn off the car to that 0.050 amount of ice/water? That pipe in front of the intake look like what about 10-14 inches? Thats quite a bit of water...
Im totally curious... Sounds good, but im stuck on this ice and water thing..
Im lost on 1 thing though. You compared it to Nitrous
Nitrous, water etc.. injection are bursts.
Isnt this thing running all the time? That was my understanding. If not, how long does it take to start producing and cold air effect after its turned on? Then what happens when you turn it off or turn off the car to that 0.050 amount of ice/water? That pipe in front of the intake look like what about 10-14 inches? Thats quite a bit of water...
Im totally curious... Sounds good, but im stuck on this ice and water thing..
12-16-2003, 12:53 AM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,342
Originally Posted by FikseRxSeven' date='Dec 16 2003, 01:23 PM
when that thing runs out the car will run excessively rich.... since you would be tuning for cold air.
if you tune for normal air, and use that kit... hten you might run excessively lean... pop goes the wankel
if you tune for normal air, and use that kit... hten you might run excessively lean... pop goes the wankel
Maybe this doesnt run all the time?
My engine runs little poop between the diff in Summer and winter no tunning done, I couldnt imagine VERY VERY low temps and then blamo 120F ouch! My FD would have a heartattack
12-16-2003, 12:24 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: fredneck MD
Posts: 4,107
No, it does not run all the time.
You freeze the pipe before a race to keep things cool. I can see this as a popular drag racing mod.
As far as the air temps, you have intake temp correction values that will adjust the amount of fuel it will inject compensating for the temp. of the air. As long as you have ENOUGH fuel, you should be OK. How much more fuel is needed, i do not know.
You freeze the pipe before a race to keep things cool. I can see this as a popular drag racing mod.
As far as the air temps, you have intake temp correction values that will adjust the amount of fuel it will inject compensating for the temp. of the air. As long as you have ENOUGH fuel, you should be OK. How much more fuel is needed, i do not know.
12-16-2003, 02:49 PM
#28
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9
No, it does NOT run all the time, it is a "shot" basis, just like nitrous and water injection.
I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge concerning wankel tuning. I was unaware of their temperature sensitvity. I sounds like you tune the engine for a specific ambient temperature and lock it in. With our piston motors its not a concern (at least its not a large enough one that you need to worry about it). But according to rfreeman27,
if you have the proper temperature fuel correction maps then it should work. But this is beyond my knowledge...
But there is not a lot of water/ice that melts. I dont get why you think its a huge amount. Water injection is considerably larger in volume of injection, and even when it does melt, its slow, not like somebody dumping a bucket of water and ice.
Actually the ice build up is a lot thinner than 0.050, but its hard to measure the exact thickness of ice, becuase its more of a "frostlike" buildup. And the depth when you look at frost on the microscopic level varies on ~200%.
It takes ~10 seconds for a complete "chill" but the the tubes are 0.030" thick copper, so the heat transfer begins almost immediately.
Turbobrik
I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge concerning wankel tuning. I was unaware of their temperature sensitvity. I sounds like you tune the engine for a specific ambient temperature and lock it in. With our piston motors its not a concern (at least its not a large enough one that you need to worry about it). But according to rfreeman27,
you have intake temp correction values that will adjust the amount of fuel it will inject compensating for the temp. of the air. As long as you have ENOUGH fuel, you should be OK
if you have the proper temperature fuel correction maps then it should work. But this is beyond my knowledge...
But there is not a lot of water/ice that melts. I dont get why you think its a huge amount. Water injection is considerably larger in volume of injection, and even when it does melt, its slow, not like somebody dumping a bucket of water and ice.
Actually the ice build up is a lot thinner than 0.050, but its hard to measure the exact thickness of ice, becuase its more of a "frostlike" buildup. And the depth when you look at frost on the microscopic level varies on ~200%.
It takes ~10 seconds for a complete "chill" but the the tubes are 0.030" thick copper, so the heat transfer begins almost immediately.
Turbobrik