Turbos not working
04-20-2002, 08:33 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 9
I just spent a thousand dollars trying to fix my twin turbos. I can't get the primary working. The shop that did it said that everything is working meaning all the solanoids. They said that there is no vaccum leaks. They said that the cat is clogged but is that possible. I would think that if the cat was clogged it will show some kind of boost. Mine shows only about 1-2 pounds on the primary. What else could it be. They said the turbos where fine and spinning. Someone help please
04-21-2002, 03:27 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 428
It could be clogged cats. You should replace the pre-cat with a downpipe and the stock main cat with a GOOD aftermarkey either from Borla, N-tech or the like.
You are sure that you have no boost leaks?
These are the easy ones to check:
Y-Pipe connector hose, (coupling)
* This is a very common failure part. This short hose, (coupling) will split and vent boosted air in copious amounts. The trick with this one is that when just looking at the part on the car it will look just fine. You need to remove the 90 degree plastic duct on top and completely remove the rubber coupling, then examine the rubber coupling by gently stretching it to see if there are any splits. Typically costs about $47 at dealer.
Check ~1" diameter hoses for leakage
* If you can rotate these hoses while attached, then the clamps are too loose. Get properly sized screw-clamps if the stock ones are not up to the job. New hoses will also help, but usually tightening the hose clamps is enough. A sign that there is air leakage is the presence of oily dirt on the aluminum casting around the hoses. New hose-clamps will set you back about $10 maximum for good ones. Note, clean up the oily dirt around the aluminum so that you will be able to see if these hoses start to leak again, (carburetor-cleaner works great).
Primary Turbo Inlet
* Typically collapses under high volume air through air cleaner into Primary Turbocharger. When the engine bay is hot the rubber is more prone to collapsing. Typical symptoms are having good boost at lower RPMs and then a loss of boost at higher RPMs, this is aggravated when engine warms-up softening the rubber allowing for easier and more complete collapse of the hose. Typically costs about $90 at dealer.
To/From Intercooler
* Same symptoms as the Y-Pipe coupler. When under boost, the hose-clamps prevent the hose from expanding due to the air pressure inside the hose. Do not under-estimate the force of 10 psi or more on 3" diameter hoses, what looks OK with engine not running may not work under boost conditions.
A loud whoosh coming from the passenger side cloud be a cracked Y-pipe.
Also, a friends car had a leaky Y-pipe gasket (b/n y-pipe and turbos) and lost boost above 4500 rpms. The early ones are made of paper and later ones are made of metal.
technonovice@yahoo.com
You are sure that you have no boost leaks?
These are the easy ones to check:
Y-Pipe connector hose, (coupling)
* This is a very common failure part. This short hose, (coupling) will split and vent boosted air in copious amounts. The trick with this one is that when just looking at the part on the car it will look just fine. You need to remove the 90 degree plastic duct on top and completely remove the rubber coupling, then examine the rubber coupling by gently stretching it to see if there are any splits. Typically costs about $47 at dealer.
Check ~1" diameter hoses for leakage
* If you can rotate these hoses while attached, then the clamps are too loose. Get properly sized screw-clamps if the stock ones are not up to the job. New hoses will also help, but usually tightening the hose clamps is enough. A sign that there is air leakage is the presence of oily dirt on the aluminum casting around the hoses. New hose-clamps will set you back about $10 maximum for good ones. Note, clean up the oily dirt around the aluminum so that you will be able to see if these hoses start to leak again, (carburetor-cleaner works great).
Primary Turbo Inlet
* Typically collapses under high volume air through air cleaner into Primary Turbocharger. When the engine bay is hot the rubber is more prone to collapsing. Typical symptoms are having good boost at lower RPMs and then a loss of boost at higher RPMs, this is aggravated when engine warms-up softening the rubber allowing for easier and more complete collapse of the hose. Typically costs about $90 at dealer.
To/From Intercooler
* Same symptoms as the Y-Pipe coupler. When under boost, the hose-clamps prevent the hose from expanding due to the air pressure inside the hose. Do not under-estimate the force of 10 psi or more on 3" diameter hoses, what looks OK with engine not running may not work under boost conditions.
A loud whoosh coming from the passenger side cloud be a cracked Y-pipe.
Also, a friends car had a leaky Y-pipe gasket (b/n y-pipe and turbos) and lost boost above 4500 rpms. The early ones are made of paper and later ones are made of metal.
technonovice@yahoo.com
04-22-2002, 05:47 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 9
Thanks techno. Guess what today I was driving to work and then all of a sudden the primary turbo kicks in and hit 12 pounds of boost. What is going on? I then shifted and to third and no more boost. Cruised in forth then gunned it and all of a sudden 12 psi again. Drove some more and no boost anymore. Stoped at a light and gunned it. 12 psi again on primary. This all happened within a 10 minutes. Now no more boost at all. The shop also told me my electical harness is bad and its gonna cost me $2,300 total. Is this the truth. What electical parts does the primary deal with. Somone please help me.
04-23-2002, 09:42 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by Liem' date='April 22 2002,15:47
The shop also told me my electical harness is bad and its gonna cost me $2,300 total. Is this the truth. What electical parts does the primary deal with. Somone please help me.
04-23-2002, 08:46 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 9
I'm not at all confident in this shop because they told me to my face that they did not know whats wrong. We got into a big argument and then he says that he guaranteed me that both turbos will work as mazda intends it to if I put a down pipe and change the whole electical harness which will run me about 2300 for the harness and 530 for the downpipe. I told I was going to take my business elsewhere and that the better business buearl will be calling him soon. 3 days later the BBB contacts him and we make a deal, I got $300 dollars back, and he says this and that about me. At this point we are in a big arguement and I ready to take my car home. All of a sudden out of nowhere he says that he doesnt want to leave the car like this. Funny thing, now he wants to put one of his spare downpipes to see if it will work also wants to go back into the engine for some reason?????. I tell him no and leave. I think he knows whats wrong but want me to spend cash for somthing I think in is and easy fix. Sorry for the long explanation but I'm just trying to figure out whats wrong with my turbos. How does and aftermarket ECU exclude the factory wiring harness? Does it come with its own? Where can I purchase one. Thanks everyone for your help
04-25-2002, 08:08 PM
#9
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 9
Thanks everyone for your help. I happy to say that my turbos come in once in awhile. I found a split in the upward pointing nipple of the turbo control solonoid and the ERG hose was pinched by the intake manifold. I also soldered up some exposed wire because the rubber was ripped and taped it up all around. I taped up the wastegate connector and the one next to it, I think thats the turbo control. Now my turbos comes in when it wants to. When it does, if I part boost it to around 6-9 psi I can get it to come in the next gear but if I boost it all the way 10-12 psi it does not come in the next gear. Also did the third gear test when the turbos where working and 12 psi tell 4500 rpm, then leaks down to 5 psi tell redline. This could be a clogged cat. Anyways does anyone know whats wrong. My car has 114000 miles on it. Turbos where rebuilt a year ago but motor is still the same, I think. No oil leaks and the oil consumption is real low meaning I could go about 2500-3000 miles with the oil only dropping half a quart. So motor is still good. Anyone please help
04-25-2002, 11:20 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 428
The Pre-control solenoid is next to the Wastegate soleniod. With a 114,000 miles I'd bet either or both: the precat and main cat are clogged. regardless now is the best time to replace them.
Here is a test you can run if it makes you feel better:
Title:Nonsequential Turbo Conversion
Date:11/27/2001
Author:Ashraf Farrag
Time estimate: 30 mins to 1 hour, depending on how familiar you are with the car
Bottom of car
1. Jack up car and put on jackstands
2. Underneath the car you pull the clip off the pre-control and turbo control actuators.
3. Move the turbo control valve on the turbo to the front of the car, fasten with safety wire or or lodge it in place next to the actuator's rod (takes some manipulation) such that it stays open (again, when the valve on the turbo is pulled towards the front of the car, the TC valve is open)
4. Move the precontrol valve to the rear of the car and fasten with safety wire (optional...the TC is all that runs the car above 4500, PC is actually closed)
On top of car
1. Disconnect two vacuum lines going to charge control actuator and plug them off (a bolt or golf tee)
2. Safety wire the charge control flapper open (with no hoses connected, it is in the open position)
3. Tee charge relief into the blow off valve's control line - i.e. they are both connected to a nipple on the intake manifold
4. Disconnect the lines going down to turbo control (under pressure tank and crossover pipe, next to the WG/PC lines) and cap them off. Since you've used wire to hold the TC valve open, you don't need the pressure/vac for the actuators
5. Disconnect the precontrol actuator vent line that goes to the solenoid -- this is so that you constantly vent the solenoid and the actuator arm doesn't move. You could also leave the clip on the PC actuator, and cap off the precontrol actuator vent.
This will tell you what is going on with the car. If you don't get full boost here it points to either aboost leak or clogged cat(s).
Ashraf (the author of this test) was having issues with his y-pipe gaskets leaking, and lack of non-sequential to produce full boost lead him to start examining for boost leaks. There is an alternate way to do this, by using vacuum hoses and routing them to the actuators/bypass the solenoids, but that won't help if you have malfunctioning components (pressure tank, vac tank, check-valves, etc).
Be aware that you may tap fuel cut with a stock ECU, as the car wasn't designed to run this way. Also, if you have a full exhaust/intake, you'll be dealing with boost creep, just like everyone else. Standard disclaimer applies!
Here is a test you can run if it makes you feel better:
Title:Nonsequential Turbo Conversion
Date:11/27/2001
Author:Ashraf Farrag
Time estimate: 30 mins to 1 hour, depending on how familiar you are with the car
Bottom of car
1. Jack up car and put on jackstands
2. Underneath the car you pull the clip off the pre-control and turbo control actuators.
3. Move the turbo control valve on the turbo to the front of the car, fasten with safety wire or or lodge it in place next to the actuator's rod (takes some manipulation) such that it stays open (again, when the valve on the turbo is pulled towards the front of the car, the TC valve is open)
4. Move the precontrol valve to the rear of the car and fasten with safety wire (optional...the TC is all that runs the car above 4500, PC is actually closed)
On top of car
1. Disconnect two vacuum lines going to charge control actuator and plug them off (a bolt or golf tee)
2. Safety wire the charge control flapper open (with no hoses connected, it is in the open position)
3. Tee charge relief into the blow off valve's control line - i.e. they are both connected to a nipple on the intake manifold
4. Disconnect the lines going down to turbo control (under pressure tank and crossover pipe, next to the WG/PC lines) and cap them off. Since you've used wire to hold the TC valve open, you don't need the pressure/vac for the actuators
5. Disconnect the precontrol actuator vent line that goes to the solenoid -- this is so that you constantly vent the solenoid and the actuator arm doesn't move. You could also leave the clip on the PC actuator, and cap off the precontrol actuator vent.
This will tell you what is going on with the car. If you don't get full boost here it points to either aboost leak or clogged cat(s).
Ashraf (the author of this test) was having issues with his y-pipe gaskets leaking, and lack of non-sequential to produce full boost lead him to start examining for boost leaks. There is an alternate way to do this, by using vacuum hoses and routing them to the actuators/bypass the solenoids, but that won't help if you have malfunctioning components (pressure tank, vac tank, check-valves, etc).
Be aware that you may tap fuel cut with a stock ECU, as the car wasn't designed to run this way. Also, if you have a full exhaust/intake, you'll be dealing with boost creep, just like everyone else. Standard disclaimer applies!