Hey everyone, just wanted to give a heads up that there is a really interesting thread on the "other" forum regarding a "Anti-det device" Here is the website of the device.



http://www.pg-unlimited.com/index.a...ustom&ID=17



Check out the other forum for the discussion before you buy it. Just wanted to give a heads up.





**Mods please don't delete, this is good stuff**

sounds like bullshit

wait what the hell do they want me to spend $450 for again? i may be an idiot by asking this but are they spark plugs or what. i went to the site but (in a blonde's voice) i dont get it....duhhhhhhhhh

aparently Batman is the one to ask... LOL

im gunna pretend like i understand your response and move on/......j/k

now i get it duhhhhhh.............like this guy

hmmm

dont question it just accept it as your own!!

They show a nifty pic of a Mercedes 3 rotor....

The argument is that trailing is unnecessary and problematic - there's a little more to it than that. The claim that Mazda turned trailing on and off to ward off detonation is wrong - it was for heating the thermal reactor.

The reason they show the C-111 engine is to show the single plug per rotor arrangement. But note the position of the plug - it's not below the minor axis like a leading plug, but rather slightly above it. This was standard practive for single plug rotaries (Curtis Wright, Mercedes, some NSU).

With the leading plug where Mazda has located it, you really do need trailing for efficient combustion. Turn off the trailing, and you blow a fair amount of unburned mixture out the exhaust (which they used to do to facilitate "external combustion" for emissions control).

I just want to see more data. I have no doubts that something so simple *could* be the "save-all" as I stated on the club.. Just VERY curious, that's all. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

thats hilarious lee... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif

It looks like a bolt to me.

http://www.pg-unlimited.com/Images/T...Plug-THUMB.jpg



sweet 450 for that huh?

Somebody is making money

it all goes back to kd...I am investigating with skip since I have the kd anti det in my car...but it dont look like that.

I do know that pg unlimited was supposed to partner up with kd to distibute the anti debt but something fell through.



Bob



thank God I can run 87 out there, my wallet hurts enough as it is

what a rip off!!! thank god i never paid any interest to this stupid thing....



once you use this, you will forever be unable to use your trailing plugs, that tiny hole will fill up with carbon so fast and so thick

OMG, that is a joke. I can disconnect the plug wires on the trailing plugs and save $450. All this talk I have heard about this magical device and its a stupid bolt that screws into your trailing plug holes...gimme a break. KDR would invent something this ridiculous. Especially after they blew a number of motors by having the timing split all screwed up. "what can we do to prevent bad tuning" "well we'll block off the trailing plugs, this way we'll never tune them backwards again".

This should just about sum it up...





TrailPlug®



Consumer Warning







As with any automotive aftermarket products, there are certain risks involved in installing and using this product. Highlighted below are some of the possible risks that may be experienced by customers while using the TrailPlug®. Customers purchase and use this product at their own risk!





The use of TrailPlug® may do the following:



* Increase combustion temperatures from leaner A/F ratio's, leading to apex seal damage, rotor face damage, turbo damage, and other heat susceptible damage.

* Increase tuning requirements for stand alone/piggy-back engine management systems.

* Although this product reduces the chances of octane induced detonation, it is not a 100% guarantee.



We have found that rotary engines running standalone or piggyback engine management computers may require additional tuning for better startup, idle, and part throttle acceleration while using this product. We believe this problem arises from the tuning already programed to utilize the trailing timing maps during these operations for better emissions control.



We have also found that the TrailPlug® works very well for rotary engines running stock engine management systems. The TrailPlug® system at the time of this writing is not compatible with the RX-8 and second generation RX-7 stock engine management. We have yet to R&D these two systems and do not condone the use on these vehicles.



Please read our terms and conditions before making your purchase as they will educate you for a better informed decision. The terms and conditions outline Performance Group Unlimited, LLC and Danco, Inc responsibility for the sale of this device and the responsibility of the customer in purchasing of the TrailPlug®. The above information should be deemed a supplement to other terms and conditions provided on other pages.



TrailPlug® Terms & Conditions

Its like all the pill ads today, there are 57 side effects to this pill but it will make you sleep better...

and didnt this donkey say that the anti detonation has to be tuned by trained and participating tuners?

oh yeah...... thread to the evil forum



its pretty amusing how this guy is defending himself



http://www.pg-unlimited.com/index.asp?Page...on=Custom&ID=17

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif So which is it...prevent engine failure or produce engine failure, hrmmm. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683561.gif

Ya know i'm surpised they don't offer a free tube of KY jelly so you can lube up before they ass rape you with the $450 charge of these bolts.

you'd have to be NUTS if you bought these BOLTS!!! hahahaah (popsicle stick joke work with me here people)

That's the most expensive set of butt-plugs ever!

how bout 4 of these screws and 100lbs of boost? woot woot

Haha, why didn't I think of that.

haha!





so besides the insults....what are some technical thoughts on the whole issue? There are some knowledgable peeps here on this forums...lets hear it.



j

precisely why I came over here after seeing that the other forums thread was at 335 posts and no info was given just flames.



from what I gathered from Skip, these guys basicly screwed him over on this so he is sticking with doing the thing locally like he had been.



My plan now is to sell my hks twin and get an AEM c2di and just run leading coils to see what happens...because I have the anti "debt" device already from KD.



Bob

Agreed. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif







https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif





Now the rich fags can buy nicer buttplugs! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif

Well I think my thoughts are pretty clear. Trying not to get too insulty or flamey here, but its is a joke as far as i'm concerned. I think just about any of us nopiston/rotary gurus here will feel the same way. I was already skeptical of the whole idea when I first caught word of it months ago. Now that the revealing is 2 bolts that eliminate the trailing spark plugs I can't help but laugh at the $450 price tag. I for one already knew that you didn't even need the trailing plugs, they are just for emissions. As a matter of fact my other FD only ran on 3 plugs, because I was too lazy to figure out why my other trailing plug wouldn't fire. The sad part is, many newbie rx7 guys will get conned into buying this idea that may not make a difference in reliability anyways. I say instead of paying $450 for this, why not spend an hour or less on the dyno or with any other wideband and tune the car properly.

I agree, how would spending 450 on the plugs, or removing the trailing plug wires and/or unplugging the coil(s) produce any different result?

dont worry, he dropped the price to 100-150 and then stopped talking all together hahahaha. anyone want a kick in the ass for 100 bucks? im selling them, first come first serve but remember... you gotta sign the nda so you can't tell which cheek i kicked to prevent farts hahahaha https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

Amazing that ignorance + RX7 ownership would make a nice income to someone. Sad really.

There's a lot out there to read regarding # of plugs, plug placement,

combustion chamber shape, etc. Remember the R26B uses 3 per rotor, which

produced a documented increase in power and improved fuel consumption.

Some people say trailing does nothing, some say it helps mileage. Mazda

claims combustion is less complete without it (but this will vary depending

on RPM / engine load).

I will say that every single plug engine design has had the plugs slightly

above the minor axis, a little below Mazda's trailing location.

Mercedes claimed best performance at 9.5:1 compression was obtained with dual

plugs. Best performance at 11.0:1 compression was achieved with a single plug

in the aforementioned location.

What kind of info are you wanting ?

There really is nothing to discuss other than the fact that not running the trailing plug can change the way the flame front propagates, and the afrs you will have in the chamber.

I think it has been covered in the club thread though you have to wade through the flames.



It’s a damn bolt. The end!



On a side note I will be making these and chroming them for only $10 over his asking price if your interested. The bling adds 13.65% more horse power because I say so. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bling.gif

i just thought i would add that i have seen the plugs, screws what ever you wish to call them on the dyno with a car running 12.5/1 af ratios on 89 octane at 15psi without any problems at ALL. I think thats pretty impressive. The idea may be simple and ridiculous to some but a few people are really going to test these and post raw data numbers....until then I think everyone should hold out on the flames until the numbers come out. Then whether good or bad you can say whatever you wish with supporting data. On another note i DO agree that the price was a little expensive for the product, which is why it HAS been reduced to 150 for the time being.



--Nick

A bolt for .50 cents will do the same damn thing! if you want a pretty part spend another dollar and get a chrome bolt. I can't speak for others but I don't need a data sheet, what will it show, what the HP and torque curve are as the rediculously overpriced bolt passes into someone's ass! The phrase "dazzle them with brilliance or baffle them with bullshit" comes to mind, in this case it seems to be the latter of the phrase that applies.

to each is thier own...I find it hard to believe that if you can prevent detonation even 90% of the time and can run leaner a/f mixtures with 89 octane gas you woudlnt be willing to spend 150 on a product. Once again i HAVE seen this work on the dyno but i believe there needs to be some raw data to validate the product.

I would agree with you if the "product" were dicussing wasnt a BOLT with a cone on the end of it. And as it was discussed on the other forum, the bolt can't completely fill up that hole to prevent carbon from forming there. It would have to be the exact same material for heat expansion and retention and machined to a thousandth of an inch, and even then a quarter turn could make the end stick out and take ur apex seal off. Not to mention, the rotor is covered in carbon anyway....whats a 2mm hole filled with carbon gonna hurt?



Im indifferent on the issue of NO TRAILING PLUGS, waiting for some raw data to come out....but a $150 bolt is rediculous in any case