Hybrid Turbos, And 13 Second Quarter Miles.
02-08-2004, 08:17 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Dover DE
Posts: 989
Ok, I posted my book earlier as suggestions, not a must do...
The suggestions were for reliability, not that this cannot be done on a stock S5 turbo, the question is how long will a 14 yr old S5 turbo handle it. I knew there would be people attacking my post, thats great but look at the results, people broke...We all know Vosko and his luck, so he is already factored into the breakage from the beginning. all of these parts were suggested as Overkill for a reason. the same way the cars are built originally. You build a safety net into the build to make sure the weak link is not due to poor planning on your part. People are quick to critisize someone that suggests something more than what is needed. The fact is, a lot of these people have never done the work themselves. Personally I am all about cheap racing to a point, but the line gets blurry until you start breaking things, then the line becomes abundantly clear.
How many posts have we seen in the last 6 months about clutches? and these were from mildly modified motors, barely even tapping the potential of the 13b.
The Single Trbo forum is full of people looking to buy a new turbo for more power. And not everyone is an expert at finding the right turbo for thier application.
Fuel management is a touchy subject with me, putting a S-AFC on a car is a band-aid in my opinion for someone that is too cheap to do it right the first time. By the time you purchase a S-AFC new (used is s different story) Install it, and get it tuned properly, you could have bought a Haltech, installed it (have fun...) and loaded the pre tuned map for your car you are close to the same cost within $100 or so.
A lot of people overlook the smallest details when it come to the car, Performance is cheap in comparison to reliability. What may work on your 56,000 mile car will not work for the masses w/ 100,000 plus, the reliability factor drops exponentially.
I am a little upset by the amount of posts that I see about blown engines, only to find out that by a little preventive maintenance, or upgrading of the right components the problem could have been avoided. The point is you could pay a little now, or a lot later.
J9 says I will be running my car on the edge, but to be honest, I will be tuning the car to the 500-600 hp level a few times over the season, but acctually detuning it for reliability and consistancy. If I build the car to these levels, then only run around 400-450hp all season and make it through without breakage, I have done what I set out to do, build a reliable drag car with minimal cost. The parts I have could put me into the 700hp levels, I am building this car to extremes but how much money would I have at the end of the drag season with a 700hp car? not as much as I would running a 400hp bracket racing car with the same modifications. I have spent close to 2 years shopping for a lot of the parts I have, and I got deals that most guys cry about (Teknics comes to mind) I am spending a lot of money in certain places where the most questionable parts are, like cooling, clutch, and the fuel system. Building it right the first time takes away all the little dollar you to death parts runs to the store. Although I may not have a magazine spread for my car, I may not be on the cover of National Dragster in your next issue, and I will not have the prettiest engine bay in town, I know in my heart the car was built for a specific purpose, and it was done right....the first time
The suggestions were for reliability, not that this cannot be done on a stock S5 turbo, the question is how long will a 14 yr old S5 turbo handle it. I knew there would be people attacking my post, thats great but look at the results, people broke...We all know Vosko and his luck, so he is already factored into the breakage from the beginning. all of these parts were suggested as Overkill for a reason. the same way the cars are built originally. You build a safety net into the build to make sure the weak link is not due to poor planning on your part. People are quick to critisize someone that suggests something more than what is needed. The fact is, a lot of these people have never done the work themselves. Personally I am all about cheap racing to a point, but the line gets blurry until you start breaking things, then the line becomes abundantly clear.
How many posts have we seen in the last 6 months about clutches? and these were from mildly modified motors, barely even tapping the potential of the 13b.
The Single Trbo forum is full of people looking to buy a new turbo for more power. And not everyone is an expert at finding the right turbo for thier application.
Fuel management is a touchy subject with me, putting a S-AFC on a car is a band-aid in my opinion for someone that is too cheap to do it right the first time. By the time you purchase a S-AFC new (used is s different story) Install it, and get it tuned properly, you could have bought a Haltech, installed it (have fun...) and loaded the pre tuned map for your car you are close to the same cost within $100 or so.
A lot of people overlook the smallest details when it come to the car, Performance is cheap in comparison to reliability. What may work on your 56,000 mile car will not work for the masses w/ 100,000 plus, the reliability factor drops exponentially.
I am a little upset by the amount of posts that I see about blown engines, only to find out that by a little preventive maintenance, or upgrading of the right components the problem could have been avoided. The point is you could pay a little now, or a lot later.
J9 says I will be running my car on the edge, but to be honest, I will be tuning the car to the 500-600 hp level a few times over the season, but acctually detuning it for reliability and consistancy. If I build the car to these levels, then only run around 400-450hp all season and make it through without breakage, I have done what I set out to do, build a reliable drag car with minimal cost. The parts I have could put me into the 700hp levels, I am building this car to extremes but how much money would I have at the end of the drag season with a 700hp car? not as much as I would running a 400hp bracket racing car with the same modifications. I have spent close to 2 years shopping for a lot of the parts I have, and I got deals that most guys cry about (Teknics comes to mind) I am spending a lot of money in certain places where the most questionable parts are, like cooling, clutch, and the fuel system. Building it right the first time takes away all the little dollar you to death parts runs to the store. Although I may not have a magazine spread for my car, I may not be on the cover of National Dragster in your next issue, and I will not have the prettiest engine bay in town, I know in my heart the car was built for a specific purpose, and it was done right....the first time
02-08-2004, 06:13 PM
#23
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Amityville, New York
Posts: 12,288
Originally Posted by sidewinderx7' date='Feb 7 2004, 04:33 AM
****, kraig his 13.2 on his s4 ... his mods are in his sig. (iluvmy88)
and i dont have an official timeslip of my low 13 runs, but i do know that i was beating confirmed 12.9-7 cars on the streets. And that was last year with a stock s5 block, stock turbo, stock catback, stock ecu, and a stereo system (amp, subs, etc).
mod: fmic, fcd, walbro 255, no ps/ac, 5$ manual boost cntroller, and 15psi leaking down to 12psi
Granted the engine blew up after a few months of that torture. But thats because i didnt take car of the engine, it pinged like crazy some nights. I didnt really care because i was getting a more .. race prepped..engine soon.
lastly i'd like to say, if i tossed it on a dyno and actually tuned it for 15psi and not been a goober about it. It would have run on 15psi for quite awhile. That little turbo will put out power at 15psi, anything above that and i saw decreased performance.. lol
and i dont have an official timeslip of my low 13 runs, but i do know that i was beating confirmed 12.9-7 cars on the streets. And that was last year with a stock s5 block, stock turbo, stock catback, stock ecu, and a stereo system (amp, subs, etc).
mod: fmic, fcd, walbro 255, no ps/ac, 5$ manual boost cntroller, and 15psi leaking down to 12psi
Granted the engine blew up after a few months of that torture. But thats because i didnt take car of the engine, it pinged like crazy some nights. I didnt really care because i was getting a more .. race prepped..engine soon.
lastly i'd like to say, if i tossed it on a dyno and actually tuned it for 15psi and not been a goober about it. It would have run on 15psi for quite awhile. That little turbo will put out power at 15psi, anything above that and i saw decreased performance.. lol
02-08-2004, 07:05 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: WA
Posts: 1,312
Originally Posted by Rob x-7' date='Feb 8 2004, 04:13 PM
Kraig ( ILuv88) also blew up his engine in a few short months
My engine however, did blow. But i attribute that to me beating the hell out of it and pinging it like crazy. Ask ecko or iluvmy88, they both drove in my car when i would boost it really high to test it and ping so bad it sounded like popcorn. I didnt care if that engine blew up, and it did eventually. Leasons learned from it are first hand, not because someone else TOLD me what they thought would happen. So it was worth it ... i now know that the stock turbo can see 15psi and still pump out power. Anything more than that and you see a decrease in power. Also with correct tuning im sure you could run 15psi for a pretty long time (i might add, this is also with a greddy 2row FMIC, i would not recommend anyone run over 10psi on the stock ic). Im sure people will disagree with me on this, but oh well..
02-08-2004, 07:51 PM
#29
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 17,839
i blew the stock clutch in like 2 weeks cause the clutch master failed and i launched and yeah... it wasn't pretty.
i have to say this 15psi on the stock turbo is FUN.. anyway yeah don't try it unless you have some money to burn afterwards
i have to say this 15psi on the stock turbo is FUN.. anyway yeah don't try it unless you have some money to burn afterwards
02-08-2004, 08:16 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by vosko' date='Feb 8 2004, 08:51 PM
i blew the stock clutch in like 2 weeks cause the clutch master failed and i launched and yeah... it wasn't pretty.
i have to say this 15psi on the stock turbo is FUN.. anyway yeah don't try it unless you have some money to burn afterwards
i have to say this 15psi on the stock turbo is FUN.. anyway yeah don't try it unless you have some money to burn afterwards