big brake kits
12-12-2005, 09:30 AM
#31
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think of it as slidding your coffee cup across your work desk. A wider bottom coffee cup made from ceramic is harder to get moving than a narrow coffee cup with plastic bottom.
However once both starts to slide it takes very little effort to keep it from sliding. What you want is to increase the static friction so it takes lots and lots of effort to get it to slide.
This is why you want better tires. Not better brakes. It's like pumping iron and benching 300 lbs. It will take very little effort for the meat head to move the coffee cup, but if your whole intent is to not move the coffee cup you optimized the wrong system. You don't need more strength to move the coffe cup. You needed more stick to prevent the coffee cup from moving.
However once both starts to slide it takes very little effort to keep it from sliding. What you want is to increase the static friction so it takes lots and lots of effort to get it to slide.
This is why you want better tires. Not better brakes. It's like pumping iron and benching 300 lbs. It will take very little effort for the meat head to move the coffee cup, but if your whole intent is to not move the coffee cup you optimized the wrong system. You don't need more strength to move the coffe cup. You needed more stick to prevent the coffee cup from moving.
12-12-2005, 09:38 AM
#32
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Posts: 3,108
btw, if all you want is to increase braking power to back to a drum setup. A drum braking system offers the greatest amount of clamping force out and thus decleration capability over any disc setup. That is why all the 18 wheelers and heavy industrial equipment sitll use the drum. Too bad they are horrible for heat dissipation.
Btw the more pistons you have the lesser the clamping force and the lesser the braking ability. The more pistons however, the greater teh sensititvity of the hyrdaulic system since it takes less force/effort for things to get transmitted from big to small. Which is the basics of hyrdaulic systems.
Btw the more pistons you have the lesser the clamping force and the lesser the braking ability. The more pistons however, the greater teh sensititvity of the hyrdaulic system since it takes less force/effort for things to get transmitted from big to small. Which is the basics of hyrdaulic systems.
12-12-2005, 09:55 AM
#33
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 244
Tires are what stops the car. Its the same sense as accelerating. Traction. If you dont have traction, then you cannot accelerate as quickly, or in the case of braking, decelerate. A braking system is only as good as the tires they are applying the braking to. Come on people, Newtons 2nd law applies here. Simple physics. Remember that deceleration is acceleration in a negative direction.
A larger diameter rotor allows more heat to be dispersed throughout the rotor, allowing it to cool quicker, in turn preventing brake fade. It also applies the brake further away from the center, which will apply more torque, with less energy, so its more efficient. Think of this like a breaker bar. Also, the brake pad will apply its force to more area per rpm of the rotor because the rotor has a larger circumferance.
A larger caliper (more pistons) allows more torque to be applied to the pads/rotor by appling more brake evenly (since you have more pistons, they apply the power to all parts of the pad, instead of just the center). This normally only increases the efficency of the torque being applied.
In braking, its all about turning kinetic energy in to friction (heat). Technicallay speaking, more heat, is better because you have more friction. But as cheers stated, there is a temperature where it starts to decrease in friction. I know most of you have seen races were you see the red rotors on race cars. But they instantly cool down before the next turn. But agian, none of that would matter if the tires arent good enough.
A larger diameter rotor allows more heat to be dispersed throughout the rotor, allowing it to cool quicker, in turn preventing brake fade. It also applies the brake further away from the center, which will apply more torque, with less energy, so its more efficient. Think of this like a breaker bar. Also, the brake pad will apply its force to more area per rpm of the rotor because the rotor has a larger circumferance.
A larger caliper (more pistons) allows more torque to be applied to the pads/rotor by appling more brake evenly (since you have more pistons, they apply the power to all parts of the pad, instead of just the center). This normally only increases the efficency of the torque being applied.
In braking, its all about turning kinetic energy in to friction (heat). Technicallay speaking, more heat, is better because you have more friction. But as cheers stated, there is a temperature where it starts to decrease in friction. I know most of you have seen races were you see the red rotors on race cars. But they instantly cool down before the next turn. But agian, none of that would matter if the tires arent good enough.
12-12-2005, 10:10 AM
#34
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 959
Cheers! ...nice, lol. I'm not even going to get into this topic as I believe the point has been made. I'm on the side of big brake kits and good tires to match, but then again..my car will hardly see street use if ever. I'll be starting my big brake system even before my engine is running again....so I'll have pics for you all late January, early february if all goes as planned...
12-12-2005, 10:51 AM
#35
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Location: Boston Ma.
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The stock brakes are more than enough for street driving. People have even been using them successfully on the track.
This is the first time ive heard that levrage of a larger rotor doesnt make a difference in stopping power.
This is the first time ive heard that levrage of a larger rotor doesnt make a difference in stopping power.
12-12-2005, 11:12 AM
#36
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Location: California
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Originally Posted by RONIN FC' post='785669' date='Dec 12 2005, 08:51 AM
The stock brakes are more than enough for street driving. People have even been using them successfully on the track.
This is the first time ive heard that levrage of a larger rotor doesnt make a difference in stopping power.
most racing classes make you use a stock rotor and caliper. which are actually ok to stop a 2400lbs non turbo car, for say 3+ hours at a time, under racing conditions.
12-12-2005, 11:44 AM
#37
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Location: Kincardine, Ontario Canada yeah Canada bitches
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Tires don't stop the car, they aid in stopping, but don't make it stop, the friction from the pads on rotor stop, along with the friction between the road and the tire.
12-12-2005, 12:28 PM
#38
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Location: fredneck MD
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Originally Posted by nismo convert' post='785681' date='Dec 12 2005, 12:44 PM
Tires don't stop the car, they aid in stopping, but don't make it stop, the friction from the pads on rotor stop, along with the friction between the road and the tire.
You are missing the point.
Nopistons comments are way too general and slightly skewed, as always. However,
YOU CAN ONLY STOP AS FAST AS YOUR TIRES ALLOW YOU!
A honda civic with tiny brakes might not be able to lock up thoes aftermarket 18inch rims and wider then stock tires. The brakes are not optimizing all of the tires grip.
So, they get BBK's, which allows them to use all of their potential grip.
nismo, you are a correct, the brakes actually stop the car. But this is about optimizing systems, bigger isnt always better...
12-12-2005, 12:32 PM
#39
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Posts: 500
I dont see one thread talking about cooling. I dont see one thread about the pros/cons to higher temp break fluid. Ive never seen anyone post pics of their break cooling duct mod. Never once seen posts about how you can cut extra grooves into your pads for heat to escape. Hell, I wonder how many people on this board change their fluid every event?
And yes your tires do stop your car. Breaks change inertia in to heat! This heat can only become intense to a point of the weakest link in your break system and that would be the boiling point of your break fluid.
Point Im tryin to make is that from a perfomance point of view is that smaller breaks are better if they are up to the job. Why not at least attempt to see what they can do with a few relatively cheap mods.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml
http://www.stealth316.com/2-brakefluid.htm
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/srf.htm
And yes your tires do stop your car. Breaks change inertia in to heat! This heat can only become intense to a point of the weakest link in your break system and that would be the boiling point of your break fluid.
Point Im tryin to make is that from a perfomance point of view is that smaller breaks are better if they are up to the job. Why not at least attempt to see what they can do with a few relatively cheap mods.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml
http://www.stealth316.com/2-brakefluid.htm
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/srf.htm
12-12-2005, 12:46 PM
#40
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Location: Boston Ma.
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Originally Posted by GMON' post='785692' date='Dec 12 2005, 01:32 PM
Point Im tryin to make is that from a perfomance point of view is that smaller breaks are better if they are up to the job.