Project Update
01-12-2006, 10:20 AM
#371
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fayetteville, Georgia
Posts: 2,483
It's been forever and a day since an update, but I haven't been idle all this time...After the purchase of an FD and then finally meeting the girl of my dreams I'm coming very close to a drivable Cosmo FB.
I bought a disc brake rear end from mazdaspeed7 and said girl helped me complete the swap in, no lie, about 35 mins. I triple checked the bolts and everything; seriously nothing has gone this easy on the car.
I swapped in the SE pumpkin I already had installed and then bolted in the new rear.
I also finished the hubs on the front but have yet to put on the brakes. I have the brake pads I need I just need to put them in the calipers and bolt 'em up.
The car runs on its own just fine, but I'm still having some oil issues. I haven't let it run for more than a couple minutes at a time though. The plan for this weekend is to let it run and see how much oil I burn. I haven't premixed yet though, so should I go ahead and do that before I let it run for awhile?
I need to find a source for axles so that I can go ahead and get 5-lug hubs for the rear (to match the front, obviously). Does anyone have any recommendations?
So what's (currently) left to do?
-Brake lines front and rear
-Discs all around
-Axles
-Driveshaft
-Rollers (I'm going to test fit the ones off my FD to see how they fit and go from there)
I bought a disc brake rear end from mazdaspeed7 and said girl helped me complete the swap in, no lie, about 35 mins. I triple checked the bolts and everything; seriously nothing has gone this easy on the car.
I swapped in the SE pumpkin I already had installed and then bolted in the new rear.
I also finished the hubs on the front but have yet to put on the brakes. I have the brake pads I need I just need to put them in the calipers and bolt 'em up.
The car runs on its own just fine, but I'm still having some oil issues. I haven't let it run for more than a couple minutes at a time though. The plan for this weekend is to let it run and see how much oil I burn. I haven't premixed yet though, so should I go ahead and do that before I let it run for awhile?
I need to find a source for axles so that I can go ahead and get 5-lug hubs for the rear (to match the front, obviously). Does anyone have any recommendations?
So what's (currently) left to do?
-Brake lines front and rear
-Discs all around
-Axles
-Driveshaft
-Rollers (I'm going to test fit the ones off my FD to see how they fit and go from there)
01-30-2006, 12:52 PM
#372
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fayetteville, Georgia
Posts: 2,483
I filled her up with oil and put some premix in the tank to see how long she could run.
At first fire, black smoke appeared, followed by the white smoke I've been seeing. I took some video of it but haven't gotten a chance to encode it, hopefully later this week. Oil is coming out from behind my exhaust manifold and there is an exhaust leak between the turbo and the manifold. What could explain the oil coming out of the exhaust ports without even being burned?
I know that there is a return for the stock sequential turbos at the back of the motor, near the oil pan, but I've already blocked that off.
I forwarded this same information to a local engine builder in hopes that he can shed some light on it. It might even be that the oil seals are bad and that they need to be replaced, in which case I will tow the car up there as soon as it's able to roll.
What do you guys think? I don't know enough about the engine to know what's wrong
.
At first fire, black smoke appeared, followed by the white smoke I've been seeing. I took some video of it but haven't gotten a chance to encode it, hopefully later this week. Oil is coming out from behind my exhaust manifold and there is an exhaust leak between the turbo and the manifold. What could explain the oil coming out of the exhaust ports without even being burned?
I know that there is a return for the stock sequential turbos at the back of the motor, near the oil pan, but I've already blocked that off.
I forwarded this same information to a local engine builder in hopes that he can shed some light on it. It might even be that the oil seals are bad and that they need to be replaced, in which case I will tow the car up there as soon as it's able to roll.
What do you guys think? I don't know enough about the engine to know what's wrong
01-30-2006, 01:27 PM
#373
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Metairie LA
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Dysfnctnl85' post='797880' date='Jan 30 2006, 10:52 AM
I filled her up with oil and put some premix in the tank to see how long she could run.
At first fire, black smoke appeared, followed by the white smoke I've been seeing. I took some video of it but haven't gotten a chance to encode it, hopefully later this week. Oil is coming out from behind my exhaust manifold and there is an exhaust leak between the turbo and the manifold. What could explain the oil coming out of the exhaust ports without even being burned?
I know that there is a return for the stock sequential turbos at the back of the motor, near the oil pan, but I've already blocked that off.
I forwarded this same information to a local engine builder in hopes that he can shed some light on it. It might even be that the oil seals are bad and that they need to be replaced, in which case I will tow the car up there as soon as it's able to roll.
What do you guys think? I don't know enough about the engine to know what's wrong
Are you positive that the oil is coming directly from the exhaust ports? It is possible that the oil could be coming from the turbo via bad seals abd backing up into the exhaust ports. A too small oil return from the turbo to the motor will also cause this type of problem. You might want to try removeing the turbo completely, install some other type of exhaust manifold with a short down pipe and see if the problem persists. As for the exhaust leak between the turbo and manifold, did you use a metal gasket between the manifold and turbo? Some manifolds require the gasket, but some are machined for use with no gasket. Check the mounting flange for the turbo, and if it is machined, try assembly without the gasket. Hope this info helps.
01-30-2006, 03:11 PM
#374
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fayetteville, Georgia
Posts: 2,483
Originally Posted by grease' post='797888' date='Jan 30 2006, 02:27 PM
Are you positive that the oil is coming directly from the exhaust ports? It is possible that the oil could be coming from the turbo via bad seals abd backing up into the exhaust ports. A too small oil return from the turbo to the motor will also cause this type of problem. You might want to try removeing the turbo completely, install some other type of exhaust manifold with a short down pipe and see if the problem persists. As for the exhaust leak between the turbo and manifold, did you use a metal gasket between the manifold and turbo? Some manifolds require the gasket, but some are machined for use with no gasket. Check the mounting flange for the turbo, and if it is machined, try assembly without the gasket. Hope this info helps.
Well, to propagate the laughing stock that is my project (because everying involved has been new to me, haha), let me clarify that I've made the exhaust manifold and used a flange water-cut from the metal gasket that shipped from my turbo. There are no recesses in the manifold flange, nor are there any on the turbo exhaust side itself, so that pretty much explains the exhaust leak, I believe. It was recommended that I get both flanges of the exhaust manifold milled flat, but I kind of assumed that metal gaskets would make up for these differences, is that wrong?
A few months ago I ran the motor without the turbo for a few seconds to observe and document (to NP) the white smoke, minus the turbo. This, in retrospect, could just be gunk that's been sitting in the motor as I didn't run it for very long at all...if you can imagine how loud a rotary is with just a manifold attached to the engine.
The turbo drains using a -10 AN line, but it's not a very sharp drop to the oil pan, more like a graduated, angle. Could this be part of the problem? I'll try and find some pictures just to see, but I really have no concept of how fast the oil is coming out of the turbo and going into the pan. The feed is very small (-4 AN IIRC).
If I had more experience I imagine I would have a better method for finding the solution to this problem, but I appreciate any/all input, because honestly it's probably something very simple I overlooked.
I hope I gave you enough information, let me know if there's something else that would help you help me haha.
02-01-2006, 11:35 AM
#376
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Metairie LA
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Dysfnctnl85' post='797949' date='Jan 30 2006, 01:11 PM
Well, to propagate the laughing stock that is my project (because everying involved has been new to me, haha), let me clarify that I've made the exhaust manifold and used a flange water-cut from the metal gasket that shipped from my turbo. There are no recesses in the manifold flange, nor are there any on the turbo exhaust side itself, so that pretty much explains the exhaust leak, I believe. It was recommended that I get both flanges of the exhaust manifold milled flat, but I kind of assumed that metal gaskets would make up for these differences, is that wrong?
A few months ago I ran the motor without the turbo for a few seconds to observe and document (to NP) the white smoke, minus the turbo. This, in retrospect, could just be gunk that's been sitting in the motor as I didn't run it for very long at all...if you can imagine how loud a rotary is with just a manifold attached to the engine.
The turbo drains using a -10 AN line, but it's not a very sharp drop to the oil pan, more like a graduated, angle. Could this be part of the problem? I'll try and find some pictures just to see, but I really have no concept of how fast the oil is coming out of the turbo and going into the pan. The feed is very small (-4 AN IIRC).
If I had more experience I imagine I would have a better method for finding the solution to this problem, but I appreciate any/all input, because honestly it's probably something very simple I overlooked.
I hope I gave you enough information, let me know if there's something else that would help you help me haha.
I suggest you bite the bullet and have those flanges machined flat. Depending on the amount of warpage/uneven surface, a thin metal gasket providing a good seal is iffy at best. I also suggest that you go to a -12 turbo drain. I had a -10 on my setup which is similar to yours and had drainage problems and a lot of smoke in the exhaust. Changing to a -12 drain line helped the problem considerably. The -4 feed line is about right, and should not require a restrictor in the feed line.
02-02-2006, 11:05 PM
#377
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fayetteville, Georgia
Posts: 2,483
Alright guys, a day late, but I think you can see pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. You can see the oil fairly clearly as it comes from behind the exhaust manifold.
Let me know what you think!
Engine Vid [MOV]
Let me know what you think!
Engine Vid [MOV]
02-03-2006, 01:15 AM
#378
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 277
I see your peril. First take the exhaust manifold off and get it faced. If it is steel it can be done on a surfacing machine at an engine reconditioners (piston engine place) and should not be very expensive. If you have made it from stainless steel take it to a engineering shop with a mill it should only take them about 2- 3 hours ( takes me about 45 min per face inc set up) Find out there hourly rate or get a quote knowing how long it should take will let you know if you are getting a good deal or not.
Next it is possible , yet highly unlikely that oil has accumulated in the chamber or seeped past the control rings . Which leaves worn control rings or damaged o rings. O rrings can be damaged with exposure to solvents or petrol ( they swell up and sometimes split ) . A compresson test or leak down would probably be inconclusive as oil in chamber would help seal giving a false reading. It may also be possible for the turbo to have a damaged or worn oil seal and oil drains back into engine , also a long shot .
When you remove manifold for facing it may be more obvice what is to blame .
Next it is possible , yet highly unlikely that oil has accumulated in the chamber or seeped past the control rings . Which leaves worn control rings or damaged o rings. O rrings can be damaged with exposure to solvents or petrol ( they swell up and sometimes split ) . A compresson test or leak down would probably be inconclusive as oil in chamber would help seal giving a false reading. It may also be possible for the turbo to have a damaged or worn oil seal and oil drains back into engine , also a long shot .
When you remove manifold for facing it may be more obvice what is to blame .
02-03-2006, 07:20 AM
#379
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fayetteville, Georgia
Posts: 2,483
Originally Posted by Nospig' post='799166' date='Feb 3 2006, 02:15 AM
I see your peril. First take the exhaust manifold off and get it faced. If it is steel it can be done on a surfacing machine at an engine reconditioners (piston engine place) and should not be very expensive. If you have made it from stainless steel take it to a engineering shop with a mill it should only take them about 2- 3 hours ( takes me about 45 min per face inc set up) Find out there hourly rate or get a quote knowing how long it should take will let you know if you are getting a good deal or not.
Next it is possible , yet highly unlikely that oil has accumulated in the chamber or seeped past the control rings . Which leaves worn control rings or damaged o rings. O rrings can be damaged with exposure to solvents or petrol ( they swell up and sometimes split ) . A compresson test or leak down would probably be inconclusive as oil in chamber would help seal giving a false reading. It may also be possible for the turbo to have a damaged or worn oil seal and oil drains back into engine , also a long shot .
When you remove manifold for facing it may be more obvice what is to blame .
First of all, thanks for the input. Second, the turbo is brand-new. The motor is an import of course, haha. Is it possible for the oil control rings to be so bad that oil is just *flowing* out of the exhaust like that?
02-03-2006, 01:59 PM
#380
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 277
Yes it is possible.
Have your manifold faced. Look for obvious sources of where oil is coming from. If its coming from in the engine chances are the oil seals are to blame. Assuming oil didnt find its way into inlet manifolds during shipping (unlikely as it should clear reasonable quickly but as a long shot should be checked as its easier than pulling down the block).
Failing this , time to look at the block. Warranty? No , ok sounds like you are reasonably ok with tools , time to pull the block down and reco. If you havent done one before its time to learn.
Have your manifold faced. Look for obvious sources of where oil is coming from. If its coming from in the engine chances are the oil seals are to blame. Assuming oil didnt find its way into inlet manifolds during shipping (unlikely as it should clear reasonable quickly but as a long shot should be checked as its easier than pulling down the block).
Failing this , time to look at the block. Warranty? No , ok sounds like you are reasonably ok with tools , time to pull the block down and reco. If you havent done one before its time to learn.