Traction How To:
02-12-2003, 09:21 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 10,906
First off, this is here so it gets a lot of views, probably be moved shortly after.
Here is my aol convo with mike:
RevvinRx7: can't remember the thread but some guy at the club was making like BIG HP numers
RevvinRx7: numbers and he had 205s on his car???
RevvinRx7: and he was getting traction control
RevvinRx7: wtF?
RevvinRx7: why wouldn't he get bigger tires???
j9fd3s: haha
RevvinRx7: http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.ph...25&pagenumber=3
RevvinRx7: RICE RACING
j9fd3s: bigger tires dont equal traction
RevvinRx7: what?
RevvinRx7: how so?
RevvinRx7: im a little lost mike
j9fd3s: think of it like a knife
RevvinRx7: ok
j9fd3s: big tires = dull knife
j9fd3s: sorta
RevvinRx7: thats what my dad said too
RevvinRx7: i was like wtf dad?
j9fd3s: haha
RevvinRx7: so why do people put bigg *** tires on their cars then?????
j9fd3s: to a point bigger is better
j9fd3s: cause they dont know
RevvinRx7: huh
RevvinRx7: damn I really am just starting to learn.
RevvinRx7: so whats the limit of how big a tire can be before it won't provide better traction?
j9fd3s: it depends on the car
j9fd3s: like the spring, how much it wieghs
RevvinRx7: is this only true on street tires?
RevvinRx7: or all tires...
j9fd3s: it works for all tires
RevvinRx7: so why do funny cars/drag cars have HUGE tires
RevvinRx7: like 345-400
j9fd3s: cause they can make it put more rubber down
RevvinRx7: cuz they have a lot of power?
RevvinRx7: i don't realy know what you mean by that
j9fd3s: cause they get the tire to deform
RevvinRx7: ah yea, but i thought the deforming part was to get even more contact patch
j9fd3s: yah
RevvinRx7: more contact patch = more traction, wider tires = more contact patch????
RevvinRx7: thats how i always thought
j9fd3s: kinda
RevvinRx7: I just don't understand
RevvinRx7: i see how my car burned rubber like a ****
RevvinRx7: cuz it has 205s
j9fd3s: yah its kinda of a grey area
j9fd3s: yah
RevvinRx7: so if i threw some 265s
RevvinRx7: it would hookup right?
j9fd3s: maybe
RevvinRx7: damn im starting a thread about this
I have always been under the impression that widder tires will always provide better traction, hence watching races/fast cars and they always have huge tires. Then I read what Rice Racing said and I was dumbfounded. So can anyone elaborate or help me explain why wider tires don't always provide better traction? I just don't want to get some wider tires and be wasting my money...
Here is my aol convo with mike:
RevvinRx7: can't remember the thread but some guy at the club was making like BIG HP numers
RevvinRx7: numbers and he had 205s on his car???
RevvinRx7: and he was getting traction control
RevvinRx7: wtF?
RevvinRx7: why wouldn't he get bigger tires???
j9fd3s: haha
RevvinRx7: http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.ph...25&pagenumber=3
RevvinRx7: RICE RACING
j9fd3s: bigger tires dont equal traction
RevvinRx7: what?
RevvinRx7: how so?
RevvinRx7: im a little lost mike
j9fd3s: think of it like a knife
RevvinRx7: ok
j9fd3s: big tires = dull knife
j9fd3s: sorta
RevvinRx7: thats what my dad said too
RevvinRx7: i was like wtf dad?
j9fd3s: haha
RevvinRx7: so why do people put bigg *** tires on their cars then?????
j9fd3s: to a point bigger is better
j9fd3s: cause they dont know
RevvinRx7: huh
RevvinRx7: damn I really am just starting to learn.
RevvinRx7: so whats the limit of how big a tire can be before it won't provide better traction?
j9fd3s: it depends on the car
j9fd3s: like the spring, how much it wieghs
RevvinRx7: is this only true on street tires?
RevvinRx7: or all tires...
j9fd3s: it works for all tires
RevvinRx7: so why do funny cars/drag cars have HUGE tires
RevvinRx7: like 345-400
j9fd3s: cause they can make it put more rubber down
RevvinRx7: cuz they have a lot of power?
RevvinRx7: i don't realy know what you mean by that
j9fd3s: cause they get the tire to deform
RevvinRx7: ah yea, but i thought the deforming part was to get even more contact patch
j9fd3s: yah
RevvinRx7: more contact patch = more traction, wider tires = more contact patch????
RevvinRx7: thats how i always thought
j9fd3s: kinda
RevvinRx7: I just don't understand
RevvinRx7: i see how my car burned rubber like a ****
RevvinRx7: cuz it has 205s
j9fd3s: yah its kinda of a grey area
j9fd3s: yah
RevvinRx7: so if i threw some 265s
RevvinRx7: it would hookup right?
j9fd3s: maybe
RevvinRx7: damn im starting a thread about this
I have always been under the impression that widder tires will always provide better traction, hence watching races/fast cars and they always have huge tires. Then I read what Rice Racing said and I was dumbfounded. So can anyone elaborate or help me explain why wider tires don't always provide better traction? I just don't want to get some wider tires and be wasting my money...
02-13-2003, 12:33 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 3,269
damn that just confused me
02-13-2003, 02:04 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,089
no no no the thread about the wider tires not equaling traction was started by marcus williams. it had a link to a page with a 68 mustang twin turbo small block that was running 205 tires. the mustang owner was an engineer for garret and he proved through mathmatical formulas that the small increase in traction you get from wider tires is negated by the increased rolling resistance.
he had done acceleration tests with an accelerometer and proved it
i'm too lazy to search for it now, if nobody else posts it by tomorow, i'll find it and post here
he had done acceleration tests with an accelerometer and proved it
i'm too lazy to search for it now, if nobody else posts it by tomorow, i'll find it and post here
02-13-2003, 02:12 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,089
heres the thread, the link that he posted is down, but you can read the discussion in the thread
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.ph...threadid=123741
http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.ph...threadid=123741
02-13-2003, 03:33 AM
#8
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3,928
misleading thread..
wider tires does mean wider contact patch..
does it mean more power to the ground... yes..
great deal of factors involved to consider when discussing efficiency of the power transmitted..
coefficient of rolling friction on a tire...suspension geometry.. psi...tire compound..sidewall rigidity..application...
to basically make a statement that bigger tires dont equal traction
and that it works for all tires is vague..and misleading....
in a sense there is some truth in the reference above of wider tires equals dull knife...
which is applied to mud and snow traction....
wider tires does mean wider contact patch..
does it mean more power to the ground... yes..
great deal of factors involved to consider when discussing efficiency of the power transmitted..
coefficient of rolling friction on a tire...suspension geometry.. psi...tire compound..sidewall rigidity..application...
to basically make a statement that bigger tires dont equal traction
and that it works for all tires is vague..and misleading....
in a sense there is some truth in the reference above of wider tires equals dull knife...
which is applied to mud and snow traction....
02-13-2003, 03:52 AM
#9
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3,928
Originally Posted by SPEED_NYC' date='Feb 13 2003, 03:04 AM
....small increase in traction you get from wider tires is negated by the increased rolling resistance.....
although consider the conservative limitations for tire application ...
versus the aggressive amount of power you can provide...
its all relative...
02-13-2003, 11:21 AM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 191
This is what happens when people try to apply something they heard in physics class to the real world. 
race tires: traction is very dependant on temperature. If the tire is too wide for a light weight car then the tire will never get up to temperature, and never produce it's maximum grip. For most production cars this is never a problem. 315's on a 1500 lb. 75hp civic might fall into this category... Why do you think drag racers do a burn out... to get the tire HOT!
street tires: designed to work over a wide range of temperatures, so you don't have to get the tire hot for it to grip. There for weight is not a big factor... so just get the widest tire you can fit under your car and go have fun.
race tires: traction is very dependant on temperature. If the tire is too wide for a light weight car then the tire will never get up to temperature, and never produce it's maximum grip. For most production cars this is never a problem. 315's on a 1500 lb. 75hp civic might fall into this category... Why do you think drag racers do a burn out... to get the tire HOT!
street tires: designed to work over a wide range of temperatures, so you don't have to get the tire hot for it to grip. There for weight is not a big factor... so just get the widest tire you can fit under your car and go have fun.