i was pretty set on getting demetrios' up coming turbo kit. until our ass licking (compliment) friend 9BASE3 came up with a very awesome turbo kit for a very awesome price.



here is the link to demetrios' turbo, from what i see from the dyno graph's it seems to have a very fast spool up, and an endless amount of torque. according to dee and keith, the kit will be around $3,000 (final price is undisclosed).



http://www.kgparts.com/R85.htm <-- link to dyno



now, which of these of the other turbos would give me similar numbers, in reguards to spool up time, as well as torque and hp curves. im not very knowledgable with turbos. jsut like im not knowledgeable with engines. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif so any info and opinions would help a lot.



the turbo is going to go to a frequently driven car, so i want to avoid a laggy and peaky hp and tq curve..... it will be bolted to a motor with very large street ports



thanks everyone



martin

Martin, if you have a nice big port, you'd be pretty happy with any of those turbos.. the 1.00 will be the slowest spooling, of course.. But you really can't tell.. I've ridden in a customers GT40R Supra with a 1.36 hotside... now THAT was laggy, but not even as bad as people make it seem LOL

i'd spend the extra dough and go for the demitrios. the reason it's more expensive is cause it's made from a metal called inconel that will never crack and we all know how hot the rotary's get, well the inconel wont even be fazed by the heat. it's crazy **** and hard to find.

they should make turbos with adamantium!!! indestructible alloy



the ones found in wolverine's body in x-men ..... hehe

If, you wipe your ass with $100 bills, then you can get a custom turbo made out of Pyromet 51. It's some crazy alloy that has 4 times the heat threshhold of titanium! Top fuel race teams make as much **** out of Pyromet 51 as possible, but even they can't afford it most of the time!

to4S .96 divided tang



He doesn't want lag and that turbo with a streetport and that hotside can make some MEAN power. My buddy runs that on his fc..

Well, do you want alot of power, a more responsive car?



I know you were talking about a t04R and that isnt the most responsive turbo. You really got to pick your poisn and stick with it https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

Inconel handles heat but it's extremely heavy, so I can't see it being efficient. Wait untill the spool delay gets posted for that set (aka: lag).

I would much rather pay for heat coating on the wheels then inconel.

tO4S - 1.00 Tangential divided.

you geek

how would spool up difference between the spoolup between TO4S with 1.0 divided compared to TO4r with .96 divided ?



keep in mind that my ports are going to be huge

How much turbo lag do you think a Garret T3/T4 hybrid turbo with .70AR will have? Unlike those massive turbo's with turbo lag until like 4,500RPM and peak hp at like 8,500RPM...I'm looking more for spooling to happen at 3,500RPM at the latest and have a smooth powerband till 7,500RPM.. Any suggestions on a future turbo perhaps, if not the one I've got now?



How much hp do you think I can get out of this turbo of mine? I've got a Walboro 255 fuel pump, RC Engineering Blue-Printed and Balanced injectors, Vortech fuel-pressure regulator, G-Force tuned ECU (FCD of its own), and 3inch Racing Beat down-pipe, 3inch high-flow cat, and 3inch dual Racing beat exhaust...



According to the previous owner the car dyno'd at 287hp or so @ 14psi, using the stock TMIC, and just the electric fan that is installed to keep it cool. With upgraded intercooler and radiator, can't I push like 22psi on that turbo, SAFELY? Oh yeah, we're talking about a J-Spec S5 core motor with everything else off a J-Spec S4 motor...

oh yeah..... i want about 350lbs of torque before 4k rpm https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

that T3/T4 **** is for Honda's. If you don't want "lag" you should pick up a .84 T-04S. Dragon ran this on his car for awhile and man did it boost up fast.

update...... all manifolds are divided

i heard about some ballbearing turbo's in japan with ceramic impeller's and you can literally blow on them and they will spin very easily. they have no lag and are extremely expensive but only last a couple years cause they are so brittle.

If your going to boost 1.2 kgcm or less go with the S because it is cheaper and you won't get any benifit from the R until you go over that boost level. If your going to boost over 1.2 then definitly go with the R. I'd run the 1.0 ex housing on either turbo. There will be a little more lag on the bottom end, but not enough to make much diffrence, but you will have way better top end and the mid range power band will be much smoother and over a larger RPM area. This will make it pull harder threw out the power band while making the car much easier to control. It will also help you to not drop out of the power band during shifts.

Past 9psi on the stock s5 t2 hotside is choking....

14psi is about the limit on that turbo setup you have.

Don't expect it to last long at that psi either.

So what's the verdict martin?

Go with the stock twins, I hear they're awesome! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif

wow, demetrios' turbo look very peaky with lots of lag. compare that dyno graph with 100hp at 3500 rpm vs. the stock twins making 150+hp at 3500 rpm. i've seen a 35/40 doing much better than that at the low end.

thanks for the feedback.



well ill most likely be driving the car for everyday...... which means up to 15, and maybe pumping up the boost to 18-20 on the dyno or track.







would a TO4S produce more torque than TO4R? or would the S produce more torque at a lower rpm? would S reach 450hp faster than R?



im wanting the R cuz im thinking like a dynoqueen, and wating the S cuz i want drivability. im so confused https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683561.gif

In all reality Martin, The difference is gonna be minimal either way.

Yeah, he is thinking WAY to hard about this.



I mean, if you really hate the turbo you choose, it isnt a huge deal to get another..

Exactly.



I promise you'll love the response from either turbo on the street at those levels.. You really wont notice the difference until you crank the boost and sit on a dyno and look at numbers. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

get this one.... http://thepartstrader.com/SingleAd.cfm?Adn...D=101&C2ID=1004

LMAO.

TO4R 1.00



Final answer!

You are correct!!!! Now you with a turbo...... but you have to pay 2g's for it

Peaky? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683561.gif The R85 torque curve (15 psi dyno) is ruler-flat from 4250 to 7250 RPM and only then starts to drop off very slowly -- still above 300 lbs-ft at 8000 RPM. Now, that dyno was with an aftermarket intake manifold, but it seems like that would perk it up down low and make it drop off a bit faster at the top end (note that the dyno goes to 9300 RPM with a very fat power curve on the way up).



I chose a small turbo (RX6) the first time I went single. It has a fat midrange, but my torque peak of 300 ft-lbs was actually at 5250 RPM with that turbo, and the torque curve of the R85 kit passes (and then completely obliterates -- 340tq@4250! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR) my RX6 torque curve at 3750 RPM at the same boost level. Now I want something bigger that won't choke my engine at the top end. When I had the twins, I usually tried to avoid the 4500 RPM turbo transition when driving casually on the street. After going single (or sequential) that limit disappears, and the importance of having lots of torque at 3000 RPM diminishes. I do care about turbo response down low, but I'm willing to give some of it up for a setup that will pull hard all the way to redline. The R85 kit seems like a good match for my goals (at a good price, with a rebuildable turbo), so I placed my order for one. I plan to use it with pump gas (~15 psi) on the street and for time trials / open track days.



I'll post some pump-gas (real street setup) dynos when my car is done.



-Max

I'm definitely not bagging on the T04S setups -- they are good for many of the same reasons I like the R85 (rebuildable, good size turbo). But I just wanted to dispute the assertion that the R85 looks peaky. And I wanted to share my thought that low RPM spool is not as big a deal as it at first seems when going single. Evidence: How many people with singles want a smaller turbo? Most want a larger turbo or are at least satisfied with what they have.



-Max

I can't edit posts, so I look like a rapid-reply fool. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



By "but it seems like that would perk it up down low and make it drop off a bit faster at the top end" I meant that the *stock* manifold should perk things up down low and drop off faster at the top end compared to the posted dyno graph.



-Max

That may be the smartest thing I have ever heard someone say. Everyone always talks about spool time, lag and all that blah blah blah.. But you hardly (if ever) hear a single guy say he misses the low end or wants a smaller, faster spooling turbo.



I've always driven cars around 3-4K anyway... I don't really know what lag is like.. Maybe it's just my driving style.. But I cruize a gear lower than everyone else LOL.. Eliminates downshifting? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png



Don't take that too literally... I don't cruize at 80 in 4th or anything... But around town I've always stayed in the powerband.





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With all that above said... We've been testing a AF22R (hybrid to4) at my shop. Of course, the club.com members have ripped us to shreads for not having "dyno numbers" but I can give hard facts like this:



T4 based turbo. 60mm compressor wheel. Spools similar to twins and is good for 450-500 hp (race gas and tuning of course). I can't "prove" that it's good for that power cause I haven't got it dyno'd yet HOWEVER I'll say this. Anyone in the midwest bring your single turbo car to my shop and race the stock ported AF22R equipped FD of Mikes. It'll embarrass anything from a dig and hang with the big boys from a roll. A 10psi this sonnofabitch is squirly all through 3rd with 275's on the back.



We are installing a second of this turbo on another car in the next week. I HOPE one of these guys will get us some good video and hit the dyno down the street.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sorry about that! I just think we're on to a really good track turbo that's capable if nice numbers... I REALLY hope to share more soon. If I can get my car to stop being a little biotch, I'll bolt one to mine too.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

Its not on your list and I dont know what your goals are but I can tell you that if you need something with decent low end a 62-1 with a P trim and 1.0 divided is a GREAT turbo. I has a real nice wide powerband, pulls like a mother at 3500, and is good for 450ish rw. In addition they are cheap as dirt and any turbo shop on the planet can rebuild it when you run a apex seal thru it lol



Otherwise if you want some big daddy power you on the right track



Later,

STEPHEN

r85

TO4R a/r .96 https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif

I was thinking the same thing. Thats what I ran after my apexi setup, and the 62-1 was badass for the street. Loads of power, great low end, and not expensive either like some of these kits.

I know this is a bit off topic, but how does the Gt35/40r compare against these setups.

I hear a lot of pros / cons about BB(Ball Bearing) setups like that, and how a rotary is pushing more fiercely than any piston driven engine, and therefore can spool a turbo faster... so going up against, say a V6 with the same turbo shouldn't you be able to be in the sweet spot faster !??



I agree that bigger = better, regardless of lag, but there comes a point, when the rear axle, and frankly the tires give up, and break/or spin... doesn't there come a point when physics takes over, and you just can't make more power since you can't put it to the ground !?

Yep, the 62-1 did have a killer powerband. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif

How would you know Van, you never made any power with it! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/bigok.gif