I want to run my fd at about 500hp, but it would be nice to have a fast spool. Is it possible to have 500hp witha twin set up, non sequential I am thinking, and put out 500 horses? I am thinking about everything, I want those on twin ball bearings, a ceramic turbine would be nice if they exist, and the added pressure form the water injection should help spool even faster. Do you think this is a good idea or should I just go with single? I mean if twins done right is single still better?

pressure from WI? comeon man.



there has to be a compromise in everything. If you have a big single running 500 hp you are going to have a little lag.



IGY is going to be running some huge twins (t04s based) and put together his 'kit' for cheep, mostly because he can fab everything he needs by himself. Your choices for real slim for true twin systems. You refered to 'non seq' in the post. there are no aftermarket twin STOCK STYLE turbos that can put out near 500 whp.



I would just stick with a good big single. it will end up costing you way less.

sometimes twins are cool...like igy's soon to be setup. otherwise i like the simplicity of the single setup....less to go wrong. also with a huge twin setup like that you need two of everything! so $$$ becomes a major concern. and the manifold is definantly not an off the shelf item. i wouldnt relie"sp?...i know i cant spell" on water injection alone. get a nice intercooler and then add water injection once you need it. also a 400rwhp fd is damn fast..why do you need a monster fd..? just because?

why?! if you need me to tell you why go watch home and garden tv or something.... lol



the lag of a big turbo really scares me... any words of encoragment? (see I cant spell either https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR )



PS:

does anyone know if there are any ceramic turbines out there?

um, dragon said wi will help the turbo spool faster because the pressure will increase. It makes sence, more gases in the exast makes for more spooling power

ok i guess that makes sense.

your joking right? No such thing as best of both worlds. A true twin system like IGYs would cost the normal person a fortune...but IGY and Dragon together fabbed the manifold and all the piping with it...practically cost IGY nothing at all.



Lag...lmfao...ask ANYBODY that has gone single turbo. Lag is irrelevent. I run an HKS T-45S. Exhaust wheel is bigger than a "Q" trim wheel. I spool 1000 rpms later than most cars...guess what. I don't care. My measily .8 kilos boost pressure will whoop ass(just wait till I turn the boost up to 1.3 https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR )



Most single turbos spool at appx 4k rpms. Trust me. I have never ran into a single turbo owner that was upset about going single turbo.... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/boink.gif

I see.... thanks for the imput



IGY and Dragon should make a thread with pics and details, it would be wonderfull to see their setup.



as far as fabrication goes I will have acces to the shop on a neeighbourly collage campus so i can fab things that are simple like piping and such

Take a look here. The pics of my setup are spread out through the thread.



https://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?...showtopic=22120

Hey IGY, have you tried the smaller exhaust housings yet?

I'm surprised nobody brought up the VATN turbos, if money is no object, you may want to check out this possibility.

Still waiting on my damn housings!

i drove a mildport t51 car (440rwhp) and the lag wasnt bad at all. it felt like it has a lot of torque down low actually, and in 1-2-3 it would just break the tires loose when the boost really came on



mike

what are those?

On water injection and spool up... the water vapor in the exaust will add a little extra push to the ex wheel, but you have to remember that the water injection doesn't come on till your already in boost. I didn't mention that in the water injection thread, so it's not going to do much.



You also have to remember that a ported engine with a big high flowing turbo even though it is lagging on building boost is still probably flowing more air in to the engine than a smaller more restrictive turbo that builds boost fast, so lag doesn't really mean ****. I.e., say one guys running a smaller more responsive turbo and hits full boost at 3800 rpm and another guy has a big single on that doesn't hit full boost till 5,000 rpm and they are both boosting 20 psi, odds are that the guy with the big turbo who is only at 12psi of boost when he is at that 3800 rpm still has more power than the guy who's already at 20 psi even though he's still got boost lag. Boost lag is also good for drag racing because the power comes on smooth and the car will keep traction and pull hard and evenly where a spiky fast spooling turbo will have a power band that jumps all at once and will spin the tires and then fall off power real fast as back pressure on the little ex housing builds up. Guess who's going to win that race. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/tongue.png



boost lag doesn't mean **** and is actually a good thing on a street car or drag car that isn't running slicks and on a circuit car it isn't a problem if you can drive and know how to keep the car in the tork/power band. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/boink.gif

well Dragon, you put my worries to rest, truly thank you!! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683894.gif



*is happy and getting a big turbo*

A nice side-effect of a big single is that you don't use it all the time while you're driving down the road. You end up putting less wear & tear on your engine during typical daily driving situations... and you get BETTER gas mileage. As long as you stay out of the boost... because as soon as you start making power, gas mileage goes out the window. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/unsure.png



I usually don't boost my car driving to work anymore... when I do, I have to be sure I've got a good distance in front of me, otherwise I'll be planted in someone's back bumper one of these days. However, when some unlucky challenger rolls up and revs on me, power is only a push of the gas pedal away. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/cool.png

lol, and if you want boost off the line get Pro Start.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png isn't that right 1Bad.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif

pop pop pop https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/ohmy.png

whats Pro Start?

Secondary Rev Limiter, Anti-Lag or Two-Step are three names commonly used.

what does Two-Step do? How does Anti-Lag limit the lag? (how does it work)

In my car, I set my secondary rev limiter to 5200rpm. I floor it, hold it, and the RPM comes up to 5200. At that point the ignition cuts off, not allowing it to rev past 5300. Then the RPM drops to about 5100 and the ignition comes back on.



During this process, the fuel never shuts off. During the time the ignition is not burning the fuel, it shoots the excess into the exhaust manifold, where the heat causes it to explode. The pressure and heat from the exploding fuel spins the turbine blade without any load on the engine.



This whole process adds up to turbo spooling before you even let the clutch out. I build up 15psi at the lights, and when I dump the clutch, it just climbs from there up to 23psi where I limit it at.



It causes more wheelspin due to having serious horsepower right from the get-go, but with proper adjustment of the rev limiter, I can bring it down to the point just before it bogs. This puts me at optimum launch RPM with power, no lag, and it comes off the line like a **********er.



The car gets through the first two gears faster, as it doesn't start boost from zero... so it not only helps at the line, it helps all the way down the strip.

thats awsome https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/BURNOUT.gif



can you turn it of and on as you please with a switch?

I am getting a feeling this isnt exactly good for your turbo to have fule exploding half way out the manafold half way in to the turbo.... or is it ok? seems lile an aful lot of stress on the turbo....

I have mine hooked to a switch near my shifter for launching. Some people put it on their clutch, that way whenever they push the clutch, they can hold the gas to the floor.



No, its not so good for the turbine wheel https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png

how "bad" is it for it then?

It does put a lot of stress on the turbo and you need to have a really good manifold or it can crack it or break a weld due the the intense pressure created. BUT DAMN IF IT AIN'T COOL.. Fire out the exaust is always cool and it sound like small arms fire from a distance.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

I am trying to figure out "how much" stress it will put on the turbo. Basicaly is it worth doing or will this destroy the turbo really fast. And thats a few grand to rebuild if destroyed = not worth it..... so.... opinions?

I'm thinking it's proly more stress on our engine's.

bah, If you use a standard bearing small shaft garett turbo like a E, S or R then rebuilds are cheap. $100 for the bearing kit and $175 or so for a new shaft. That is as long as you don't take out the compressor housing.. Also you don't use the prostart all the time, but only once in a while at say a drag event etc, so you should be ok, if you use it on the street people will be calling the police reporting gun fire.. lol

It is ******* loud! Watch out for fireballs too.





At the races here people like to sit on the curb of the starting line, funny watching peoples legs get burned when they launch! They olnt sit there once https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683785.gif

I see, thanks