I'd have to agree with DuMaurier 7. If you ask for an opinion, chances are you'll get one.



Chances are, the intercooler in question will be more than sufficient for it's proposed use. However, if I were building a car with the intentions of optimal performance I would look to more high-end products. Reason being, the lower end products are generally lower in price as some quality is sacrificed to save money. Not in all cases of course, but in many.



All intercoolers function similar in the right settings. Some will perform better in these said conditions as Ted stated. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

EVERYONE will have to chill out and debate the quality of said intercooler in a more mature civilized way from this point on, or this thread will disapear.

Here are some numbers I got from the stock IC vs the Ebay FMIC



These are both datalogs from my Microtech installed on my car.

Both are pulls from 1st through 5th (1st - 4th are to 8000 and 5th to slow down)

Both of these runs were about 12-13 seconds

Both were at 12 psi and 93 octane

Both the pulls were around 73F ambient



The TMIC hit a max temp of 38C (100F) at the top of 4th.

The FMIC hit a max temp of 27C (80F) at the top of 4th.



With those numbers, you can calculate the efficiency for the TMIC to be 70ish and the FMIC 90ish.



All of these numbers are not exact. I need more sensors to be more accurate.

My turbo also has a small effect on these numbers because it varies from turbo to turbo. Also, wind speed,wind direction, air density, angle of the intercooler, piping used, bends, all have an effect too. But only to a hunderedth degree, unless its to the extreme. When I get my new sensors in, I will be puting them everywhere. I am also going to check the boost drop and run the tests up to 18 psi.



For $400 to get 20% more cooling or $1100 to get 22%. Hmmmm.



But of course, there is always liquid N2 https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683329.gif



I also forgot to mention that it took a longer time for the FMIC to heat up. From the begining, it took untill mid 2nd to rise a few degress instead of the TMIC heating up instantly.

TMIC= which setup?

Stock setup without the heat deflector on the bottom and the seal on the top. Just the bare IC.



The heat deflector removal helped cool it better when you are moving, once you stop, the IC heats right up.

My views on this intercooler were posted in a previous thread in 2nd gen forum...BUT...I will add them here, just in case...



The good:

-Intercooler is less expensive

-Comes polished(usually an extra cost on a few aftermarket companies)

-Is better then stock/and is still a good "next step" upgrade for street cars



The bad:

-My personal opinion is that build quality was low(sloppy welds,etc)

-Internal fin design is minimal compared to GReddy/APEXi/XS, etc

-I feel the endtanks are too small for higher boost levels regarding pressure drop



I'm not trying to start another battle in here by any means. I have seen Ted on forums since I can remember owning a 7...we've had our run-in's, etc..but I still don't bash his knowledge. Sometimes being in the business of selling parts, making the parts, or installing/tuning the parts..you have to be ready for anything. You have to be ready for differences in opinions, budget and tastes. Somebody comes up wanting an intercooled turbo kit custom built to their car, but they only have X amount of money...you start to look at alternatives to doing the most expensive & highest performing route..and you build for what the customer wanted. Later on, customer gets some extra cash...wants to keep upgrading, bam..through in a high-end IC from Spearco, etc..



Another note, and I know I'm jumping around and what not, but for those who are "bashing" the name brands..saying you can buy a name or an intercooler..this is completely untrue. Most of the higher end parts companies started life in racing..its a fact. You look at spearco, TRUST, APEXi, etc..or even some of your domestic guys like Edelbrock and holley..these guys CAME from racing. They have years on top of years of experience with what it takes to beat the other guy. You can't say that just because I bought a GReddy FMIC or a Spearco core, that I just spent the extra money on the name..I didn't. I spent the money on the added research that through their years of racing and testing their products on their cars they were able to compile. You think those guys like losing a race? Every bit of what they know goes into their products...and they are a superior product. It's not hype, it's not "them trying to sell something" ...it's their facts, their victories on the track and their LIFE. No company wants to be found out for selling an overpriced product that doesn't perform as it should...and the best way those big name guys have found to do that, is to make superior products.



And now I'm done w/ my little rant...but finally..every car is an expression of the person who built it..do whatever you want with your own cars...and just everybody get along! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683473.gif

Thxs roadkill.

Bill, quit crying about the endtanks. You have NO idea what it is or what yours is. If you think about it, mine has less because the air charge has less room to expand. The reason that the endtank size matters is so that the air charge can expand and decrease pressure so it can cool better, but not by much.



heres a pic



http://www.1320engineering.com/images/diagram.jpg



You can take the difference in 2 ways:



1. The higher flow of the larger endtank will not cool as well since it will spend less time in the core



or



2. The higher flow in the long run wont heat the IC up as quickly, so you get a longer time of cooler air.



It makes sense then that the larger endtanks would have a higher density of internal fins so it will cool better.



You can also account that it is easier for lower pressure air to be cooled because it is technically cooler to begin with.





And for everyone out there who thinks pressure drop occurs when the IC is installed, I just have to say one thing......there is none. These tests are done with one endtank open and the other with an air source set to a certain CFM. Then pressure is measured before and after the core. There is your boost drop and flow measurments. When it on the car, if you are boosting 10 psi, there is 10psi in the whole system. It is impossible for there not to be.

IC pressure drop does occur, and has been measured on many cars. When you are flowing a lot of air (high boost & high RPM) through the piping and IC, the pressure will be higher at the compressor outlet than it is right before the throttle body. Pretty much all air-to-air IC systems have some measurable pressure drop -- 1 psi is pretty good; 3 psi is not so good. If your IC (and piping) is restrictive, you will have more pressure drop. That means the turbos have to create more pressure at the compressor outlet to get the same manifold pressure. As a result the air temp at the compressor outlet will be higher (since it is more compressed), and there will be more backpressure on the exhaust side since the compressor has to work harder. Backpressure limits flow through the engine system at a given manifold boost level, and thus limits power.



Pressure drop is really a measurement of the flow capabilities of the piping and IC. A system with less flow capability will have more pressure drop at a given CFM. A system with more flow capability will have less pressure drop at the same CFM.



Pressure drop does NOT mean that you get less boost pressure in the manifold after installing an IC, though it may manifest that way depending on how your boost is controlled. But by definition, the pressure drop is the difference in pressure before and after the IC -- it is NOT a measure of how much your boost changes after installing a different IC. You can have an IC with 3 psi of pressure drop (at max boost/RPM on your car) and replace it with a new IC with 1 psi of pressure drop (at the same boost+RPM conditions) and end up with the same manifold boost pressure. Assuming the cooling performance is similar between the two, you will make more power with the IC that has less pressure drop. That is why people care about pressure drop.



-Max

To prove that physics will win agian, I will put a few more pressure sensor throughout my piping in the morning. All of them will read the same at any given time. It is impossible to have a higher or lower pressure than any other place in a sealed system. For there to be 10 psi in the compressor, there has to be 10 psi in the manifold and TB and piping and intercooler. It will equal itself out. Thats what pressure likes to do.

While pressure does tend to equalize, the intake tract of an engine is not a sealed system. It has a turbo compressor forcing air in at one end, a number of parts of varying degrees of restriction in the middle, and an engine eating air at the other end. In other words, there is a bunch of air rushing through the system, and the result is different pressures at various points along the path.



-Max

Think about how a venturi works guys. There is reduced air pressure at the venturi throat, which also causes a tempurature decrease. Typical carb setup. Bernoulli's principle: as the velocity of air increases, its internal pressure decreases.

That's not physics buddy. You need to read a few books...

you get what you pay for.

um just out of curiousity what is it? thermodynamics? algebra?

aerodynamics



and physics is involved in that

Aerodynamics is basically physics though now that i think of it although it's not typical physics. Damn, I wish I was a little more thorough. ******* short attention span...

What everyone in this thread has said is right in their own context.



Pressure in a closed system at 10 psi is 10 psi everywhere. Correct if we are talking about steady state situations. If you were to pressurize the system at 10 psi and hold this pressure for an X amount of time the pressure on measured at the compressor and throttle body would be 10 psi.



It is when the system is dynamic of in it's inital state that is when you see a closed system having different pressures at different locations. Upon initial pressurization in a system with a restriction the location prior to the restriction will experience a higher pressure then on the other side.



This is not really physics, it is introductory to fluid dynamics.



Now the questino is does this intercooler cause that big of a restriction.

pressure drops cuz of lack of flow, engine is sucking the compressed air faster than the intercooler would let through.