dynamic tuning concept for ideal AFR's
10-15-2002, 07:34 PM
#21
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by gmonsen' date='Oct 16 2002, 08:00 AM
hey, peter! great to see you over here. far less bullshit (so far) and more acceptable sex... anyway, where can i find the info on the autronic? it actually tunes to a desired AFR across everything or how? the ideal system would let you sdo what i said. tune to richer afr's where there were problems and then lean it out as you went to higher rpm. also, i'm hearing that AEM and TECIII do this. i've got to check their sites. i'm working way too hard at this stuff, if there are boxes that do it... -gordon
You can watch it happen on the display when MAP & TPS are steady. The pulsewidths vary & AFR moves in 10ths.
Main downside is the lookup table can not be altered and so can not be calibrated. I got around this by calibrating the voltage from the O2 sensor so that the ECU readout was within a 10th of the reading from a big dollar sniffer
10-15-2002, 09:44 PM
#22
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Location: Utopia
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Robbomaz, the Microtech along with others will do closed loop for normal conditions, it will not have any input in WOT full load conditions, almost all ECU's resort to the pre programmed map if they are non air flow metered cars.
The Autronic with AUTO TUNE Wide band interface will program itself ! I think maybe MOTEC offer this as well ????
Gordon, type in Autronic ina search engine and you will find all the info under the official reseller, I will go look for it now (am at work, so no guarrantee )
But yeah I am with you, why re invent the wheel when it's already been done, Lots of pros in Aust use this Auto tune and swear by it, I will be using it on my PP turbo engine soon : )
The Autronic with AUTO TUNE Wide band interface will program itself ! I think maybe MOTEC offer this as well ????
Gordon, type in Autronic ina search engine and you will find all the info under the official reseller, I will go look for it now (am at work, so no guarrantee )
But yeah I am with you, why re invent the wheel when it's already been done, Lots of pros in Aust use this Auto tune and swear by it, I will be using it on my PP turbo engine soon : )
10-15-2002, 10:47 PM
#23
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Motec will make you a Cappucino on your drive to work........!
I didn't know thw Autronic could do that. Must have a 3D map that brings in load & throttle pos as well? Wouldn't want it trimming back to 14.7 as you blast past the apex at 15psi & the top of third gear......!
I didn't know thw Autronic could do that. Must have a 3D map that brings in load & throttle pos as well? Wouldn't want it trimming back to 14.7 as you blast past the apex at 15psi & the top of third gear......!
10-15-2002, 11:22 PM
#24
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11-01-2002, 06:58 PM
#26
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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gordon this is already done alot. it's called closed loop tuning. this is not a very good idea as everything would rely on your O2 sensor. if you get oil on it, foul it up, electrical glitch, temp fluctuation, basically anything that could give it a wrong reading you're looking at a rebuild. now what you can do is a semi-closed loop mode, where you do some baseline tuning to get afr's and inj. duty cycles. then you just input the afr you want and the computer will spit back a complete fuel map to reach that goal. you just look over the fuel map to check if everything looks ok, hit apply and it'll automatically apply those duty cycle numbers. the dta ems i'll be using for my drag car has this function and it's much safer than a full closed loop mode.
11-10-2002, 10:12 AM
#27
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closed loop tuning is common on virtually all stock ecu's and several aftermarket ecu's. however, their purpose is to maintain proper exhaust emmissions at lower rpm. they usually operate from 0-3000 rpm.
the system i'm talking about wqould of course require a wideband o2 sensor and would read that and target a preset a/f ratio, which wouyld require an onboard, integrated lambda gauge to instantly convert o2 into a/f and feed that back into the processor for correction. if i am correct, the closed loop systems do not do this at all, though someone can set me straight here if i'm wrong. the closed loop systems only are concerned with emmissions. i am pretty sure they are not very fast, either, since they are intended to check on emmissions and this is not a critical reading relative to detonation, but only to whether the car will pass emmissions or not. i know that peter farrell used to use the closed loop monitoring from the electromotive as a simple way of tuning for a/f broadly. he started using wideband lambda meters later on.
guys, if the technology and approach i am suggesting here were available, there would not be any tuners, since we would just hook up our aftermarket ecu's and set the a/f ratio we wanted and drive away...
-gordon
the system i'm talking about wqould of course require a wideband o2 sensor and would read that and target a preset a/f ratio, which wouyld require an onboard, integrated lambda gauge to instantly convert o2 into a/f and feed that back into the processor for correction. if i am correct, the closed loop systems do not do this at all, though someone can set me straight here if i'm wrong. the closed loop systems only are concerned with emmissions. i am pretty sure they are not very fast, either, since they are intended to check on emmissions and this is not a critical reading relative to detonation, but only to whether the car will pass emmissions or not. i know that peter farrell used to use the closed loop monitoring from the electromotive as a simple way of tuning for a/f broadly. he started using wideband lambda meters later on.
guys, if the technology and approach i am suggesting here were available, there would not be any tuners, since we would just hook up our aftermarket ecu's and set the a/f ratio we wanted and drive away...
-gordon
11-10-2002, 10:39 AM
#28
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 7,316
Originally Posted by gmonsen' date='Nov 10 2002, 08:12 AM
closed loop tuning is common on virtually all stock ecu's and several aftermarket ecu's. however, their purpose is to maintain proper exhaust emmissions at lower rpm. they usually operate from 0-3000 rpm.
the system i'm talking about wqould of course require a wideband o2 sensor and would read that and target a preset a/f ratio, which wouyld require an onboard, integrated lambda gauge to instantly convert o2 into a/f and feed that back into the processor for correction. if i am correct, the closed loop systems do not do this at all, though someone can set me straight here if i'm wrong. the closed loop systems only are concerned with emmissions. i am pretty sure they are not very fast, either, since they are intended to check on emmissions and this is not a critical reading relative to detonation, but only to whether the car will pass emmissions or not. i know that peter farrell used to use the closed loop monitoring from the electromotive as a simple way of tuning for a/f broadly. he started using wideband lambda meters later on.
guys, if the technology and approach i am suggesting here were available, there would not be any tuners, since we would just hook up our aftermarket ecu's and set the a/f ratio we wanted and drive away...
-gordon
the system i'm talking about wqould of course require a wideband o2 sensor and would read that and target a preset a/f ratio, which wouyld require an onboard, integrated lambda gauge to instantly convert o2 into a/f and feed that back into the processor for correction. if i am correct, the closed loop systems do not do this at all, though someone can set me straight here if i'm wrong. the closed loop systems only are concerned with emmissions. i am pretty sure they are not very fast, either, since they are intended to check on emmissions and this is not a critical reading relative to detonation, but only to whether the car will pass emmissions or not. i know that peter farrell used to use the closed loop monitoring from the electromotive as a simple way of tuning for a/f broadly. he started using wideband lambda meters later on.
guys, if the technology and approach i am suggesting here were available, there would not be any tuners, since we would just hook up our aftermarket ecu's and set the a/f ratio we wanted and drive away...
-gordon
11-10-2002, 10:52 AM
#29
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Location: Peoria, AZ
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Originally Posted by gmonsen' date='Nov 10 2002, 11:12 AM
guys, if the technology and approach i am suggesting here were available, there would not be any tuners, since we would just hook up our aftermarket ecu's and set the a/f ratio we wanted and drive away...
-gordon
-gordon
11-11-2002, 01:14 PM
#30
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 92
closed loop tuning or autotuning w/ a wideband is available on almost all new ems's. the problem is what happens when something causes your 02 sensor to have an inaccurate reading. if your fuel maps are completely based on what your 02 sensor is reading your gonna be in big trouble. even the smallest thing like the sensor not being heated up properly or oil getting on the sensor will cause it to give bad readings.