550RWHP!!!!
11-17-2002, 09:53 PM
#11
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 10,906
cool. do u need to have the bumper support, or could u ditch that whole thing too? and why do u use the 2 rubber bumpers at the rear of the hood at the track(strip?)? is that because of the low oil temps?so the oil doesn't flow or what? i had no idea that too low could be possible. 
11-18-2002, 01:17 PM
#12
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,550
Like what was stated before "your not going to have the fuel you need" I'm hitting 80% at some where around 500 hp with 2 x 850's and 2 x 1600's while running dual walboro pumps in the tank... All the fuel calculators your using are for piston engines. Rotarys need way more fuel to get the same HP.. and your going to need a minimum of 4 x 1600's and some water injection would also help.
You can remove the whole bumper support... and you won't have any problem with the oil temps your stating. Actually if you can get them down anouther 20' it would be great... That oil is what is cooling your rotors.. Also my car has had those cooling mod's for years + a whole **** load more so there no secret.. :yum:
for your hp goal you'll need to buy a T51R or somthing around that size and your going to need a HUGE 4 core intercooler or all that flow from the big turbo will just bottle neak and not do ****. Your also probably going to need a outer bridge port and a huge exaust port and at least 60mm runners on the header and a Q-trim wheel on the exaust side of that turbo with a BIG exaust housing like a 1.04 or larger. But most importantly your going to need a Really BIG wallet...
You can remove the whole bumper support... and you won't have any problem with the oil temps your stating. Actually if you can get them down anouther 20' it would be great... That oil is what is cooling your rotors.. Also my car has had those cooling mod's for years + a whole **** load more so there no secret.. :yum:
for your hp goal you'll need to buy a T51R or somthing around that size and your going to need a HUGE 4 core intercooler or all that flow from the big turbo will just bottle neak and not do ****. Your also probably going to need a outer bridge port and a huge exaust port and at least 60mm runners on the header and a Q-trim wheel on the exaust side of that turbo with a BIG exaust housing like a 1.04 or larger. But most importantly your going to need a Really BIG wallet...
11-18-2002, 07:41 PM
#14
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: bay area california
Posts: 102
Dragon, a couple of questions, and please excuse my gross over simplifications. I am making 430hp at 60% duty cycle, if I increase fuel, air , and HP 25% that would be 537hp@ 80% duty cycle. In support of this possibility AJC13B is making in excess of 600hp with 850/1650 injectors. Please explain the actual relationship to me. Second why does a T66/T78/TO4R make 650-750hp on a supra, a T51spl up to 1000, but a rotary only makes 60% of that? Is it the volumetric capacity difference of the two engines to utilize the incoming air? I have noticed that for a given size of turbo the rotaries use a larger AR than the supra, for example a T66 .81AR Q trim is optimum on a supra, while several rotaries I know of are using a 1.00AR on the same turbo. It would seem that in order to generate the greater exhaust energy implied by the larger AR the rotary would have to be injesting a commensurate greater amount of air as well. with that in mind, why then do most rotaries make so much less power on a given turbo? HELP!!
11-18-2002, 09:08 PM
#15
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 477
Originally Posted by 94touring' date='Nov 18 2002, 01:56 AM
Yeah, make sure you have your basics, like bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, whatever it takes to have enough fuel. And to run the kind of psi to get those numbers you'll need race fuel to keep from blowing motors, but i'm sure you already know. Have you ever thought about doing a partial bridge port or even a full bridge? Is this more of a race car or something that will be driven on the street?
11-18-2002, 09:33 PM
#16
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: bay area california
Posts: 102
Ernie, do you know the specs on the turbo that you're running? I know you have the stage 2 SR turbo, but what is the inducer spec, exducer,AR? You posted earlier+/- 500hp, at what duty cycle on the injectors? Do you run slicks, or streets? What wheel tire combo should I run for those occasional trips to the strip? I am thinking 26.5-10.5-16 streets on an 8" or 9" rim. As for Dragons recomendations, there is no denying he knows how his set up works, and I do want good reliability, BUT I dont understand why a 25% increase in output warrants such a dramatic change in approach. There are lots of Aussies making mid 500s without radical work. Dragon, I want and value your input, I just want to understand the basis of your recommendations. Also with regard to my secret cooling mod, I was trying in my own way to be funny no secrets...
SO, WHO is going to turn it up on a GT35/40 and post some big numbers? Supposedly there are Aussies making 600 withg that turbo(no dyno ). I will make the power on a streetport at 25psi and reliably....determined, not detered... Carl
SO, WHO is going to turn it up on a GT35/40 and post some big numbers? Supposedly there are Aussies making 600 withg that turbo(no dyno
11-19-2002, 05:56 AM
#17
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 477
Carl,
Demetrios just put the stage 2 KKK on Willie's car (his mechanic) and measured it. I forget the exact measurements, but he told me it was the equivalent to a T-76 which is pretty large. (If your not familiar, that would be bigger than a Greddy T88) I run ET streets on the track with the stock wheels.
Demetrios just put the stage 2 KKK on Willie's car (his mechanic) and measured it. I forget the exact measurements, but he told me it was the equivalent to a T-76 which is pretty large. (If your not familiar, that would be bigger than a Greddy T88) I run ET streets on the track with the stock wheels.
11-19-2002, 07:27 AM
#18
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by in2twins' date='Nov 19 2002, 09:41 AM
Dragon, a couple of questions, and please excuse my gross over simplifications. I am making 430hp at 60% duty cycle, if I increase fuel, air , and HP 25% that would be 537hp@ 80% duty cycle. In support of this possibility AJC13B is making in excess of 600hp with 850/1650 injectors. Please explain the actual relationship to me. Second why does a T66/T78/TO4R make 650-750hp on a supra, a T51spl up to 1000, but a rotary only makes 60% of that? Is it the volumetric capacity difference of the two engines to utilize the incoming air? I have noticed that for a given size of turbo the rotaries use a larger AR than the supra, for example a T66 .81AR Q trim is optimum on a supra, while several rotaries I know of are using a 1.00AR on the same turbo. It would seem that in order to generate the greater exhaust energy implied by the larger AR the rotary would have to be injesting a commensurate greater amount of air as well. with that in mind, why then do most rotaries make so much less power on a given turbo? HELP!!
Rotaries can utilise larger a/r effectively because of their pumping efficiency. Someone I know once said they are just a big hole into which you can throw as much air & fuel as you like! The exhaust gas is expelled from a RE at a far greater velocity than your average piston motor. They also move air in far greater volumes than a piston engine of equivalent capacity.Capacity of the engines needs to be considered also. Even with the recognised equivelency factor of 1.7 a 13B is somewhat less than 3 litres! My experience with big hairdryers on rotaries is that the dyno numbers are not always as big as some piston engines, but the on road performance is often superior due perhaps in no small part to the flat torque curve. These big number piston engines are using massive boost too are they not? I have also found that the big turbo is less effective on the rotary unless full use is made of it ie put it onto the compressor map island and use the 2 Bar the big suckers are built for. We have seen 380 + rwhp@ 16 psi out of a hybrid terbs on a stock 13B using T04 comp, core & turbine in a machined out standard 13B turbine housing!
We have a joke here that pistons make SPHP (Shetland Pony hp), but rotaries make BCHP (Big Clydesdale HP) The numbers might be smaller but the pull is bigger!
11-19-2002, 04:47 PM
#20
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Amityville, New York
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I know that by removing 2 bolts its a no-cost thing, but your driving around with 2 bolts holding the hood down
A cowl induction hood achieves the same effect as yours, so your on track.
Alot of these guys today like these crazy radical looking hoods with vents and louvres that dont do dick for cooling instead of trusting a method that has been around since the 60's.
A cowl induction hood achieves the same effect as yours, so your on track.
Alot of these guys today like these crazy radical looking hoods with vents and louvres that dont do dick for cooling instead of trusting a method that has been around since the 60's.