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https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/BURNOUT.gif ive been looking around for a air intake for the the rx 8 whats the best kind to get with the best air flow and actually feel a little bit of a diffrence?
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I have the Racing Beat REVi and ram air. I love it!
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AEM unit looks like the way to go...
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Originally Posted by 1Revvin7' post='813805' date='Apr 13 2006, 08:08 PM
AEM unit looks like the way to go... pics? |
RB or AEM. IMO the RB is tuned bettor.
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HKS has one of the highest power gains and it sounds really nice. Also, the way it is designed it does well in the rain. Many intakes such as the AEM tend to get clogged up with water from rain.
But the Umnitza intake sounds much better and it brings you 8whp, which isn't much lower than the others. WATCH THE VIDEO |
RB intake is probably the best, but all big names are going to be decient.
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the one in the video does look really good, and yeah it sounds cool, but neither of those things really matter. You want something that widens the powerband on top of maybe adding a few hp up top. Area under the curve is more important than a few peak numbers. Someone find dyno charts for some different intakes and compare.
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Originally Posted by blue_mazdaspeed_rx8' post='817869' date='May 7 2006, 08:56 PM
HKS has one of the highest power gains and it sounds really nice. Also, the way it is designed it does well in the rain. Many intakes such as the AEM tend to get clogged up with water from rain. But the Umnitza intake sounds much better and it brings you 8whp, which isn't much lower than the others. WATCH THE VIDEO O and personally, i like the REVi Ram air intake. |
don't waste your money on an intake for the 8. an ecu will give you the best gains, next to forced induction.
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^^ free up hp, gain hp, add hp, what does it matter? As long as you get your point across.
Technically I would think it is correct to say add hp if you are talking about a turbo or even a really well designed intake manifold. An intake manifold that allows air to bounce back and forth between rotars and actually creates air pulses equivalent to like 2psi of boost at high rpms is making power that the engine would not normally make, so you are adding power, not just freeing it up. (The stock manifold does that by the way) I guess technically just changing the intake might be considered freeing up hp, but its not like the stock one is really restrictive or anything, you are really probably just changing the powerband or moving hp around rather than freeing up any hp to speak of. If you want to get all picky then why are we even talking about hp, why not torque. If an intake adds or frees up hp but costs you some torque then you really havent done anything. I would think a ram air intake is adding hp also, i guess you could call it "freeing up hp" because basically you are just overcoming pumping losses, but at certain times while accelerating there is still more air available than there would be even if you could make an unrestricted intake that changed diameter and length with rpms. Alot of racing classes dont allow ram air and i suspect its because they consider it a power adder. I could debate this with someone or just with myself all day long so why not just look at what people say for what they were trying to say instead of being so nit picky. I am not trying to piss anyone off, i am just trying to point out that it doesnt matter because you knew what he ment, no one has really said anything wrong here. |
i understand what you're saying, but i don't think you have much experience with the rx8's pcm.
one motor i ported actually LOST, yes LOST hp because the pcm went apeshit and turned the fuel way up. i was able to semi-tune it with the emanage and get more hp than stock, but the computer doesn't like ANYTHING to be done. step 1: computer step 2: everything else. i wouldn't even waste time with a k&n drop-in filter without at least some way to control fuel. stock rx8 ~165-190 whp (depending on what mood your computer is in rx8 with intake, no cat, headers, free flowing cat-back: 170-195 whp... so for the price of your $600 headers, $300 intake, $500 catback, and $200 midpipe, you can just about get the interceptor, or other standalone and make it worth your while. |
Originally Posted by Transam kid 01' post='822582' date='Jun 5 2006, 09:39 AM
It frees up HP, not add's. And WHP? are you sure is isnt FWHP? O and personally, i like the REVi Ram air intake. it is technically rwhp, it is not front wheel drive. but whp represents the same thing meaning the power isn't measured at the engine. the rb and revi intakes are the quietest you can buy. HKS, AEM, and the Mazdaspeed, which is coming out in the summer, are the loudest. |
a high flow cat is the best sound in my opinion. The Rotary Performance super cat is really great and passes emissions.
Rotary Performance Site (rx7.com) VIDEOS stock exhaust same car with cat take a little while to download but very, very good videos. You should definitly right click video links and click "save target as" this will give you more power than an intake and a midpipe since I'm pretty sure the ecu must be tuned for midpipes (but not positive). |
you don't have to worry about blowing up the 8's when you open up the exhaust, unlike the 7's. it just doesn't give you much of any gain until you have the capability of tuning for it.
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I know the computer is aweful, but most people dont know how to tune a car well enough to make it even sorta driveable. It takes like 10 hours. I am not 100% sure but i think the stock computer will eventually learn your mods, it just takes a month or so. The car will make more power if you run 87 octane and drive the piss out of it all the time, not just some of the time. I wouldnt port any engine and try to run it with the stock computer, much less a rotary, i am not saying it cant or hasnt been done, i just wouldnt do it.
I wish there was a computer that you could just hook up and type in 13.2:1 for the a/f ratio and maybe play with ignition alittle and go. Why cant someone make that? It needs a hot wire MAS, a MAP sensor, 2 good knock sensors, a wide band O2 sensor, and maybe even another air temp sensor to go in the TB (even though the MAS basically does the job). Its probably possible to write a program for a microtech or haltech or any of the other computers out there to allow you to do just that, i just wish i knew how. It would probably be very doable for a motech, but then you are spending at least $4000 just on the computer. |
there are a few ecu's with auto tune capabilities, but it doesn't take THAT long to tune a car. a while if you're doing maybe a bridgeport with no basemap to begine with but if you got say the interceptor, you could get it done in an hour or so on the dyno and some street tuning.
but i totally agree with you about not everyone knowing how to do it. but if everyone knew, "tuner" shops wouldn't exist. |
ok, so maybe not 10 hours but it should take alot longer than people usually want to spend on it. I have tuned or help tune 2 or 3 rx8s with interceptors and it takes more than an hour, of course the intake and exhaust were custom and a bit extreme, definately not for street use. That said, we had to fluctuate from the base map quite a bit.
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Sorry, i should have been more specific. I meant Flywheel HP
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Originally Posted by wankelTII' post='822740' date='Jun 6 2006, 09:42 AM
^^ free up hp, gain hp, add hp, what does it matter? As long as you get your point across. Technically I would think it is correct to say add hp if you are talking about a turbo or even a really well designed intake manifold. An intake manifold that allows air to bounce back and forth between rotars and actually creates air pulses equivalent to like 2psi of boost at high rpms is making power that the engine would not normally make, so you are adding power, not just freeing it up. (The stock manifold does that by the way) I guess technically just changing the intake might be considered freeing up hp, but its not like the stock one is really restrictive or anything, you are really probably just changing the powerband or moving hp around rather than freeing up any hp to speak of. If you want to get all picky then why are we even talking about hp, why not torque. If an intake adds or frees up hp but costs you some torque then you really havent done anything. I would think a ram air intake is adding hp also, i guess you could call it "freeing up hp" because basically you are just overcoming pumping losses, but at certain times while accelerating there is still more air available than there would be even if you could make an unrestricted intake that changed diameter and length with rpms. Alot of racing classes dont allow ram air and i suspect its because they consider it a power adder. I could debate this with someone or just with myself all day long so why not just look at what people say for what they were trying to say instead of being so nit picky. I am not trying to piss anyone off, i am just trying to point out that it doesnt matter because you knew what he ment, no one has really said anything wrong here. There is difference between adding HP and freeing up. When you add something like and intake or exhaust, you free up HP, b/c the system you are adding is less restrictive. When they test the numbers, they will put on the most restrictive (unless they say as compared to stock) so that it is the most "gain." So in essence, you are "freeing up" HP since it is no longer as restrictive. However, adding a turbo adds HP b/c there is no turbo system on the 8 so there is no way to "free up" the HP. However, im sure if you said that it "added HP," people would know what you are talking about. |
Originally Posted by wankelTII' post='823141' date='Jun 8 2006, 05:16 AM
ok, so maybe not 10 hours but it should take alot longer than people usually want to spend on it. I have tuned or help tune 2 or 3 rx8s with interceptors and it takes more than an hour, of course the intake and exhaust were custom and a bit extreme, definately not for street use. That said, we had to fluctuate from the base map quite a bit. how could the intake and exhaust make it not for street use, other than noise? niether one will affect the powerband drastically. port timing and manifold design will probably show the most significant gains in the n/a world, aside from the ems stuff. |
They were race cars. With tuning the powerband WAS affected drastically, we gained like 50hp in the mid range, but peak hp was never over 215 and was only about 200 or 205 with the final tuning. Torque was alot more too. They may have been somewhat streetable as far as power goes, but they were really really loud, had full cage, hollow doors, a hacked up dash, no interior, etc. They also had solid hub clutches and ACT flywheels. The intakes consisted of a straight pipe with a venturi on the end (no MAS), and the exhaust was 3inch open all the way back with a strait through 3in muffler. In the end there were almost no sensors on the cars at all, we basically just had a wide band to look at (not hooked to the computer) and fixed fuel and ignition maps with all the major sensors disabled, i would have rather had everything and worked on getting it all to work correctly together but it wasnt my call. Now i think they are running fully built engines even though thats not exactly legal. I am no longer with the team, i had my reasons for quiting.
i agree about the port timing and intake mani making the most difference, they are everything on a rotary. And any n/a car. |
you made 50whp through the midrange on a stock port renesis? no maf probably means not the stock ecu.
show me the dyno or i call BS |
well, call what you want, i dont work for the team anymore so its going to be difficult to come up with a dyno sheet. It was done with an Interceptor and a dyno that was capable of load based tuning. Stock ecu was still there, Interceptor basically lets you do what you want though. Took a long long time, started from scratch. Picked up somewhere between 40 and 50 hp when all was said and done.
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i consider midrange in hte 3-6k rpm range on the renesis.
are you saying you gained 50+ hp from 3-6k? |
yeah, somewhere in there.
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https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/bsflag.gif
show me a dyno sheet, or name the shop you worked for. |
Man I actually read all this lol. I am going to have to agree with guitarjunkie here he ahs been right on this whole thread. The rx-8 is a pital to mess with the computer is to damn smart for its own good. Yes it will learn your mods but not for performance it will learn them to detune to what it wants to keep everything safe and daily driver friendly.
With proper fuel tuning 35hp can be found quite easily and one again on this car the only mod out of the box worth doing is some sort of engine management. Now I don’t think I believe the post about the 50hp but I don’t doubt an obtainable 50hp can be found from tuning. But without a P style port a 3in exhaust will cause a loss as the velocity is gone. |
I will see if i can get the dyno sheet
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later on this year, i'm gonna see how it likes some overlap. if it's happy with it, i might take a 4-port motor and do an aux. peripheral intake on it.
worlds first smog-legal peripheral port? that'd be cool. |
ya find that dyno yet?
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Still cant get a copy but i saw the final numbers again and they have actually now gotten rid of the michrotech and are using a hacked stock ecu. The stock car that we dyno'ed made 167hp to the wheels. The last dyno was around 220whp peak. They have been working with Racing Beat along with Mazda Speed and a couple others and found that with 2inches + for the diameter of the runners and 4inch exhaust the car continues to make more power. Grand Am is now letting them run a header, but the header they have is only good for about 4hp, the new one with larger runners and bigger exhaust should make more. The engines are now RB built engines, but most of the mods are for cooling and reliability, no real power mods. Ceramic apex seals, engine balanced to the lightest rotor, grooved water jackets, etc.
Part of what they are doing that is making power is premixing to around 40 to 1. There seems to be no amount of premix you can add to the fuel that doesnt make more power, but much more than 40:1 and the plugs start fouling really fast. Rotaries make more power on 87 octane and i suspect it has to do with the burn rate, and adding lots of premix to 98 octane should slow the burn rate also. 87 octane with lots of premix would be the best of both worlds, but 98octane is the spec fuel. They are premixing 40:1 and they have a modified OMP that injects more oil than stock also. |
Originally Posted by wankelTII' post='827106' date='Jul 6 2006, 03:02 PM
They are premixing 40:1 and they have a modified OMP that injects more oil than stock also. |
who are "they"?
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"they" are the 2 or 3 guys that are my good friends who chose to continue working there even though the pay sucked, the Nephew of the guy that designed the Garret GT series turbocharger, they are getting alot of hlep and direction from Racing Beat, and MazdaSpeed has been a big part of everything too.
The guy that worked with garret also happens to have a Datsun 510 with a 13b that makes over 600hp, i am sure everyone has seen it in magazines, its considered among most to be the nicest 510 in the world. He was also a Mazda engineer for a really really long time. I am not just making this stuff up we spent tons of time on the dyno, and Racing Beat is telling them to do most of the stuff anyway. These guys are basically taking Speedsource's place with Mazda and Racing Beat because Sylvan Tremblay (owner of Speedsource) didnt want to do things any way but his own. I believe funding for Speedsource's P port 20b rx8 has already been cut. I am not going to say any names of the people involved just yet and i am not going to advertise for the team either. So you can all just believe what you want, it doesnt bother me one way or the other. |
what company?
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we were talking to the guys who had the silver and purple rx8's at mazdafest, and they actually had the drivers go on a diet, cause that was easier than getting 5hp out of the 8.....
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well there's power to be had. it's just very hard to extract it with the stock computer.
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Originally Posted by guitarjunkie28' post='827770' date='Jul 10 2006, 09:04 AM
well there's power to be had. it's just very hard to extract it with the stock computer. didnt really look at the car, but it appeared to be stock ecu (they almost flooded em, they needed the updated batteries and starters), with an exhaust |
it's been 25+ years already and mazda can't come up with a decent starter yet? wtf, mate?
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