Scca Gt-3 Engines
01-22-2004, 08:14 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 280
Howard, I run wet sump engines with a highly modified oil pan. Yep I bet that he was referring to a dry sump. You got the love the 48 IDA and the 51 ida now! I just sold my last 13B PP housings from Team Highball. I should have saved a set!
01-24-2004, 05:43 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Ohio (Hebron) Zephyrhills Fla.
Posts: 1,322
Originally Posted by howracer' date='Jan 21 2004, 07:44 PM
i have to admit the GT3 in the title of your post grabbed my eye. then i read your post about your "obsolete" Daryl Drummond engines.... what??????
i ran GT3 from 83 to 89 when there was actual competition in the Cendiv (any of 10 cars could win every race) and the runoffs were run at a real racetrack, Road Atlanta.
I could not have insulted all of the Central Division competitors and the race track voted the most competitive in America by the pro drivers, in just one sentence, but you did it. Congratulations. LEH
Roger Mandeville built my engines for the first 3 seasons and Daryl Drummond built them for the last 3 years. and yes, we ran 38 mm chokes just like you.
The change in choke size was from 36MM to 38MM. You would have had 36MM chokes. LEH
it is my opinion that no one builds a better GT3 motor than Daryl.
That is my opinion also. LEH
if Daryl is telling you that he is happy w the bridgeported/38 mm setup in your motors versus a 40mm raceport configuration i would suggest you believe it.
He is telling me no such thing. I am interested in finding out if the increase in choke size for street ported engines from 38MM to 40MM would make enough more power to make the change to street ports worth the work. The street ported engine being less peaky than the bridgeported engine.
running his motors i consistantly trapped a best in class 143 mph at the bottom of the Road Atlanta straight at 10,000 rpm in top gear. i finished 2nd, 3rd twice and 4th twice at the runoffs in GT3. while a number of years has passed the primary competition is still running the same 4 valve motors and making about the same hp. your 245 hp is hardly obsolete let alone un-competitive. who drives the car? i don't see any National points associated with your name in 02 or 03.
Three years ago the pole sitting Nissan had a time that would have put him on the pole for the GT-2 race.
i have a Drummond Enterprises dyno sheet i recently dug up to show Judge Ito from 3/25/89 that shows 254 corrected hp at 9000. the Judge was quite impressed w 254 hp from a NA 12A running w 38 mm chokes. that (dry sumped) motor at one time or another held lap records at every Cendiv track, sat on the pole in 7 of 12 races, won the June Sprints at Elkhart Lake and beat the '89 National Champ Jim Dentici (Mugen Honda tube frame) twice, his only 2 losses that year. Daryl knows his stuff.
You are telling me you had 254HP in 89 and my new Drummonds had only 245 after all those years of devlopment?
so i had 9 more hp than you. that's not alot of additional hp. i suggest you get tuning on your chassis and listen to Daryl. Daryl wrote the book.
I would give an arm for 9HP more than I have now. That 9HP at the top is dynamite.
i am just slightly sorry for the partial rant but Daryl is a friend and a fabulous engine guy and the concept of someone who can't even spell Weber correctly building a "more powerful engine" than Daryl and labeling his engine "obsolete" when he is telling you it isn't.... well.. i do wish you good luck.
Darly is a great engine builder. LEH
You are not the least little bit "sorry" about your rant. Just like stabbing the baby sitter to death, either you did it, or you didn't. LEH
I no longer own a dyno so I would be hard pressed to build a stronger engine than Daryl, but here I am about to try to at least get more power in the lower RPM range. My engines are now 6 years old. Daryl said that his current thinking (his words) is quite different, and current engines are stronger and turn well over 10,000 RPM. Ours are limited to 9,600.
Sorry, but the correct term is "obsolete", like it or not. LEH
How is it that with all of that power, all of the speed, all of those wins, and no doubt, all of that driving skill, no National championships?
Perhaps if you had tuned your chassis some more, or learned to capitalize the first person "I", or the first word in each sentence, or even your own name, you would have had better luck.
howard coleman
Lynn E. Hanover
i ran GT3 from 83 to 89 when there was actual competition in the Cendiv (any of 10 cars could win every race) and the runoffs were run at a real racetrack, Road Atlanta.
I could not have insulted all of the Central Division competitors and the race track voted the most competitive in America by the pro drivers, in just one sentence, but you did it. Congratulations. LEH
Roger Mandeville built my engines for the first 3 seasons and Daryl Drummond built them for the last 3 years. and yes, we ran 38 mm chokes just like you.
The change in choke size was from 36MM to 38MM. You would have had 36MM chokes. LEH
it is my opinion that no one builds a better GT3 motor than Daryl.
That is my opinion also. LEH
if Daryl is telling you that he is happy w the bridgeported/38 mm setup in your motors versus a 40mm raceport configuration i would suggest you believe it.
He is telling me no such thing. I am interested in finding out if the increase in choke size for street ported engines from 38MM to 40MM would make enough more power to make the change to street ports worth the work. The street ported engine being less peaky than the bridgeported engine.
running his motors i consistantly trapped a best in class 143 mph at the bottom of the Road Atlanta straight at 10,000 rpm in top gear. i finished 2nd, 3rd twice and 4th twice at the runoffs in GT3. while a number of years has passed the primary competition is still running the same 4 valve motors and making about the same hp. your 245 hp is hardly obsolete let alone un-competitive. who drives the car? i don't see any National points associated with your name in 02 or 03.
Three years ago the pole sitting Nissan had a time that would have put him on the pole for the GT-2 race.
i have a Drummond Enterprises dyno sheet i recently dug up to show Judge Ito from 3/25/89 that shows 254 corrected hp at 9000. the Judge was quite impressed w 254 hp from a NA 12A running w 38 mm chokes. that (dry sumped) motor at one time or another held lap records at every Cendiv track, sat on the pole in 7 of 12 races, won the June Sprints at Elkhart Lake and beat the '89 National Champ Jim Dentici (Mugen Honda tube frame) twice, his only 2 losses that year. Daryl knows his stuff.
You are telling me you had 254HP in 89 and my new Drummonds had only 245 after all those years of devlopment?
so i had 9 more hp than you. that's not alot of additional hp. i suggest you get tuning on your chassis and listen to Daryl. Daryl wrote the book.
I would give an arm for 9HP more than I have now. That 9HP at the top is dynamite.
i am just slightly sorry for the partial rant but Daryl is a friend and a fabulous engine guy and the concept of someone who can't even spell Weber correctly building a "more powerful engine" than Daryl and labeling his engine "obsolete" when he is telling you it isn't.... well.. i do wish you good luck.
Darly is a great engine builder. LEH
You are not the least little bit "sorry" about your rant. Just like stabbing the baby sitter to death, either you did it, or you didn't. LEH
I no longer own a dyno so I would be hard pressed to build a stronger engine than Daryl, but here I am about to try to at least get more power in the lower RPM range. My engines are now 6 years old. Daryl said that his current thinking (his words) is quite different, and current engines are stronger and turn well over 10,000 RPM. Ours are limited to 9,600.
Sorry, but the correct term is "obsolete", like it or not. LEH
How is it that with all of that power, all of the speed, all of those wins, and no doubt, all of that driving skill, no National championships?
Perhaps if you had tuned your chassis some more, or learned to capitalize the first person "I", or the first word in each sentence, or even your own name, you would have had better luck.
howard coleman
Lynn E. Hanover
If anyone has some pictures of bridge ported turbo end plates, I would like to see them. As I suspect, would every one else.
Thank you.
Lynn E. Hanover
01-29-2004, 07:58 AM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 117
lynn,
i apologise to you for clearly mis-reading your expertise as to rotaries. Daryl was more than an engine builder. he was a team member and maybe my brain just short circuited when i read the word obsolete. i do realize it has been sometime since we raced together and we all know that technology marches ahead at a great rate of speed. the world of smart people working on our beloved rotaries is small enough that we all should be supportive of each other. i have enjoyed your subsequent posts and wish you well with your efforts.
again, my apologies to you.
howard coleman
i apologise to you for clearly mis-reading your expertise as to rotaries. Daryl was more than an engine builder. he was a team member and maybe my brain just short circuited when i read the word obsolete. i do realize it has been sometime since we raced together and we all know that technology marches ahead at a great rate of speed. the world of smart people working on our beloved rotaries is small enough that we all should be supportive of each other. i have enjoyed your subsequent posts and wish you well with your efforts.
again, my apologies to you.
howard coleman
01-29-2004, 11:21 AM
#15
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Ohio (Hebron) Zephyrhills Fla.
Posts: 1,322
Originally Posted by howracer' date='Jan 29 2004, 05:58 AM
lynn,
i apologise to you for clearly mis-reading your expertise as to rotaries. Daryl was more than an engine builder. he was a team member and maybe my brain just short circuited when i read the word obsolete. i do realize it has been sometime since we raced together and we all know that technology marches ahead at a great rate of speed. the world of smart people working on our beloved rotaries is small enough that we all should be supportive of each other. i have enjoyed your subsequent posts and wish you well with your efforts.
again, my apologies to you.
howard coleman
i apologise to you for clearly mis-reading your expertise as to rotaries. Daryl was more than an engine builder. he was a team member and maybe my brain just short circuited when i read the word obsolete. i do realize it has been sometime since we raced together and we all know that technology marches ahead at a great rate of speed. the world of smart people working on our beloved rotaries is small enough that we all should be supportive of each other. i have enjoyed your subsequent posts and wish you well with your efforts.
again, my apologies to you.
howard coleman
If we could come up with the money, we would go right back to Daryl for two more engines. However, just stronger engines are not all of the problem. The Nissans are just too strong down the straights. It is one thing to qualify with low fuel, just above the minimum weight, and not be able to reproduce that lap time in the race. The Nissans can run closer to their qualifying laps in the race. It did not appear that the pole sitter was working hard to stay out front.
Soon there will be the Nissan race out front, and the real GT-3 race several seconds back. Even if we could duplicate pinnigar's car, we could only either finish
ahead of Pinnigar or behind Pinnigar. If 4 Nissans show up then we could finish 5th or 6th. The SCCA is silent on this. Two years ago we attended the comp board meeting at the run offs and discovered that only one member raced, and he admitted that he had his car prepared by another person because he didn't know anything about cars.
That is a stunning discovery.
So when somebody wants bigger chokes for this or that, I guess the comp board would flip a coin for the answer. The Nissans are clearly turning GT-2 times. The SCCA wants more cars in GT-2. I would slow the front row of GT-2 with choke size and move the 2 liter Nissan to GT-2. Presto, GT-3 is well again and there are more cars in GT-2.
The SCCA has been evolving again after years of starting a new class of cars every 20 minutes. They have allowed GT-3 fans to run the Miata shape with a Rotary so that could help a bit on drag. Our best finish at the run offs without the Nissans was a 7th later changed to a 6th in tech for a chicken **** reason. Stacy Wilson, a real low bucks school teacher and fellow Mazda racer was disqualified from 5th place for an 1/8" spoiler violation. He was using a home made street port that was of great interest to me.
Now the corner workers are on the corners from dawn to dusk, and there are fewer workers each year. Many are my age or older and cannot do it all day long.
So, they just do fewer races now. The main reason for reducing the number of classes.
The Mazda comp people are enthusiastic and over worked, but get close to no funding. Ford is apparently unaware that they control Mazda, except for when they wanted to screw up the styling on the RX-8.
So 4 years ago we could have done real well with 5 more HP. Right now we need a minimum of 15 HP and that may not be possible with 38MM chokes.
It is one thing to race with the idea that if the guy in front makes a small error you can get by him under braking, and the reality is that near the end of the race he will motor by with one hand on the wheel, thinking about his income taxes.
I do miss IMSA.
Lynn E. Hanover
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