jimmy54

Alright, maybe someone can help me, or give me an idea....



The motor is an s4 13bT. It was running great before being rebuilt except for a possibilty of burning some coolant (i say possible because i just found out that the pressure tester i used to determine that was faulty!) Anyways..... Once the motor was apart the following was done:



New seals and springs for everything except i reused side seals

Used housings (I did all the checks according to the FSM)

Used Plates

Racing beat intake and exhaust porting done by me.

Thermal Pellet mod (done using the washers)

Increased oil pressure (Using washers trick)



Now, on One of the ports it was pretty close to the oil seal area, but i decided to try it anyways. (i didnt mind if it smoked a LITTLE bit)



Thats it for the motor



The only other change done to the car during this period was i added a fuel cooler and large filter.



Now this is what happens :



The car is burning TONS of oil, i mean TONS. In less than a minute i can see the oil level drop, and there is so much smoke i cant see. BUT also within that one minute time, my oil gets full of fuel aswell! I turned down my microtech to as lean as i could to still have it running. I dont have my wideband hooked up ofcourse due to the exhaust being full of raw oil.



I took off my upper intake and looked down the runners, the primarys were perfectly clean like when i installed them. However, the secondaries were black with oil...



I know most people would say that its the porting, but would a slight cut into the oil seal area really cause THIS much of an issue? and Fill the oil with fuel? I've changed the oil after each the startups, so its always an issue no matter how much i turn up and down the microtech.



Please give me some ideas before i open the motor up again!



Thanks

rfreeman27

Just a quick question, why would you go through replacing all of the seals BUT the sideseals? They should be cut to each application. They are cheap!

1Revvin7

Sounds like the porting. In my experience it hasn't been a cloud, but on startup pretty smokey. Should take some variables out of the equation and get new control rings, mazda oil seals/springs, grind your sides irons also. Should be doing that anyhow.

jimmy54

It has new oil control rings and springs....Like i said, everything except the side seals... The reason i didnt do side seals was i kept hearing how they usually dont need to be replaced, and since mine seemed to be in spec, i used them.... All the plates/housings were checked for warp and were slightly grinded just to clean them up.



You say only a cloud on startup, But mine is acutally kind of opposite... Not so much on startup, but once it gets running just starts pumping out... Either way its going to get torn open, and im going to replace the sideseals along with the plate, and see what happens.

j9fd3s

we had one, years and years ago, that was ported by another shop, and he nicked a side plate. teeny little nick, and it would leak oil into the motor and then smoke for a good 40minutes after you started it

jimmy54

I had everything taped up pretty well, but who knows! How much smoke are you talking about though...It looks like im doing a massive burnout with the amount of solid smoke.



The other interesting thing i forgot to mention, BOTH rotors are filling with oil... Both the plugs get oil on them... So, im thinking could it possibly be maybe the oil control seals popped out of place during the build? But then i think, if it was somthing like that, wouldnt i have low oil pressure?



BTW just want to thank everyone so far for their ideas!!

j9fd3s

this car was like the house is on fire smoke for 45 minutes

Lynn E. Hanover

In racing, there are those who port into the track of the outer oil scraper. This will cause excessive smoking at idle and lower RPM. Once under way, with the revs kept above 8,000 RPM, there is so much exhaust gas being processed that the smoking is not obvious. Still smoking but not as obvious. Some say they port as above all of the irons they do, with no troubles.



At race end, they coast into the pits and tow the car back to the paddock space, the hot engine smoking being horrible. Also, much oil collects in the exhaust system, and even if a fresh engine is installed, the smoking will continue until all of the oil is burned out of the system. Thus making you think you screwed up twice.



This is more common on racers using the big street port, rather than a bridgeport.



If either scraper ring has an "O" ring intact, there will be little smoke. If both "O" rings have failed or have been cut, the smoking will be astounding. No matter if the seal track has been breached or not.



For street driving, porting into the seal track is just not an option. The cops will explain it in more detail when they catch you.



I have a rotor with a corner cut out of it including an opening to observe the outer seal track as the rotor turns. I can scribe an accurate line just outboard of the seal track. In the street engine there is little room for improvement along the seal track.



Lynn E. Hanover

jimmy54

UPDATE!



Ok, So i finally got a chance to open up the motor...



Upon removing the oil pan, it confirmed my fuel in the oil issue, but raised another! Metal Shavings! I had a few magnets in the oil pan to collect, and there was quite a bit on them and Also what seemed to be aluminum....



Next, I found that the tension bolts had loosened from what they had been torqued......I found it odd that the first one i was removing was pretty easy. So i decided to get out the torque wrench..Needless to say had all loosened from their 30 foot pounds...



After opening up the motor, i didnt find any damaged housings, but i did find a broken side seal....Any ideas what would cause this on a motor that ran for less than an hour?



Now, my last question, I had mentioned earlier about my concerns on one of the ports...If the oil was getting by due to overporting, would the inside of the port have traces of oil?



I havent disassembled the Rotors as of yet, but does any of this explain why the motor was just pumping oil inside? Maybe the loose tension bolts?

jimmy54

Update part 2!



Alright, so i took apart the rotors, One of the outer oil orings had one side pretty much missing...I was thinking i'd find this problem on both sides since they both had oil though... The rotor with the broken side seal is junk as it seems to have taken a piece of the slot with it. Sucks even more since i had installed a new rotor bearing!