Review of Rotary Aviation O-Ring Kit
05-14-2007, 04:02 PM
#61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 917
Update:
Local guy with a Turbo II I did a motor for in Sept 2005 is experiencing problems with nearly identical symptoms using the same brand o-ring kit. No history of over-heating. The motor, while built a year and a half, has only been recently running for about 2-3 months. Has about 1500 miles on it. Didn't experience problems from the get-go to my knowledge. Looks like I'll be tearing it down here pretty soon.
B
Local guy with a Turbo II I did a motor for in Sept 2005 is experiencing problems with nearly identical symptoms using the same brand o-ring kit. No history of over-heating. The motor, while built a year and a half, has only been recently running for about 2-3 months. Has about 1500 miles on it. Didn't experience problems from the get-go to my knowledge. Looks like I'll be tearing it down here pretty soon.
B
08-29-2007, 08:04 PM
#64
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 917
That's what I've been recommending to people as of late. I fixed a 13BREW motor about 1-2 weeks ago that had those o-rings in it. While I couldn't find any visual signs of splitting or anything else that would jump out and indicate an obvious failure, the motor is now running w/ the factory o-rings and it's holding temperature just fine whilst not craving coolant. It's not showing any of the overheat symptoms it was when it was using the other o-rings. It was previously built in '04 but just finally started late last year.
B
B
11-06-2007, 11:48 PM
#65
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by mazdaspeed7' post='866910' date='Apr 5 2007, 07:06 PM
On the same note, I still have yet to have a coolant seal failure with these seals, aside from one engine of mine that was grossly overheated on a handful of occasions. But even that engine didnt split the seals like yours.
I also have not had any issues with these seals either. I use them in my engine and also for my friends. Testing out some different turbos and different apex seals, this past week I made over 120 passes on the dyno, 90% of these passes were 30-35psi. Some of the forum members were there and saw the abuse I put these seals through and they held up, these are the same ones that have been in my engine for over 3 years.
I know of at least 5 guys that have these in street/track driven FDs that are hammered all the time and they are lasting. Just because I would hate to pull a motor for something silly I would use the stock seals for a guy that wants a stock long lasting motor but for the guy that races and wants to pull his motor yearly to refresh, you cannot beat these.
Anthony
11-08-2007, 04:33 PM
#66
Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 2,763
Originally Posted by AnthonyNYC' post='887297' date='Nov 7 2007, 01:48 AM
I also have not had any issues with these seals either. I use them in my engine and also for my friends. Testing out some different turbos and different apex seals, this past week I made over 120 passes on the dyno, 90% of these passes were 30-35psi. Some of the forum members were there and saw the abuse I put these seals through and they held up, these are the same ones that have been in my engine for over 3 years.
I know of at least 5 guys that have these in street/track driven FDs that are hammered all the time and they are lasting. Just because I would hate to pull a motor for something silly I would use the stock seals for a guy that wants a stock long lasting motor but for the guy that races and wants to pull his motor yearly to refresh, you cannot beat these.
Anthony
I know of at least 5 guys that have these in street/track driven FDs that are hammered all the time and they are lasting. Just because I would hate to pull a motor for something silly I would use the stock seals for a guy that wants a stock long lasting motor but for the guy that races and wants to pull his motor yearly to refresh, you cannot beat these.
Anthony
It seems to me like the people who have problems with the RA seals consistently have problems with those seals, and those who dont have problems, consistently dont. If it was a quality control issue, wouldnt it be random failures?
12-08-2007, 07:06 AM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 1,591
Seems to me like it is a fault at build time. mabey seal was overly streched or placed twisted when trying to get it in the seats i tend to agree with RA about the QC that the custome base is there R&D if the customers are happy then you have a good product plain and simple. not to say you are doing bad builds BDC but mabey you are doing something wronge with out knowing. After reading this thread and there being posts of people having good results with these seals also it might not be the seals. Im going to build a motor for my sand rail and im going with the RA kit and see what happens it wont be for a while but when I do if anything happens i will post it here.
12-08-2007, 06:10 PM
#68
Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 2,763
Originally Posted by RX7 13B 4 UR AZZ' post='889568' date='Dec 8 2007, 09:06 AM
Seems to me like it is a fault at build time. mabey seal was overly streched or placed twisted when trying to get it in the seats i tend to agree with RA about the QC that the custome base is there R&D if the customers are happy then you have a good product plain and simple. not to say you are doing bad builds BDC but mabey you are doing something wronge with out knowing. After reading this thread and there being posts of people having good results with these seals also it might not be the seals. Im going to build a motor for my sand rail and im going with the RA kit and see what happens it wont be for a while but when I do if anything happens i will post it here.
https://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=861097
In case you missed it the first time, I have always left my seals on this for a few days(at least) prior to using them in the engine. Its just a piece of wood cut out to the size/shape of the o-ring groove, and after being placed on it, the teflon rings retain this shape, and sit perfectly in the groove. No stretching or fighting, they go in as they were intended to.
12-12-2007, 01:54 AM
#69
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by mazdaspeed7' post='889607' date='Dec 8 2007, 08:10 PM
https://www.nopistons.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=861097
In case you missed it the first time, I have always left my seals on this for a few days(at least) prior to using them in the engine. Its just a piece of wood cut out to the size/shape of the o-ring groove, and after being placed on it, the teflon rings retain this shape, and sit perfectly in the groove. No stretching or fighting, they go in as they were intended to.
In case you missed it the first time, I have always left my seals on this for a few days(at least) prior to using them in the engine. Its just a piece of wood cut out to the size/shape of the o-ring groove, and after being placed on it, the teflon rings retain this shape, and sit perfectly in the groove. No stretching or fighting, they go in as they were intended to.
Stretching is an afterthought fix for the first? improperly sized set. These can be ordered to within a few thou accuracy. Why continue to order the wrong size??? I've seen them damaged by stretching BTW.
And for those that are not on ACRE/RotaryEng - the variation in oring channel size appears to be larger between rotor housing generations (castings) than the variation in the orings sizes themselves. One size does not fit all housings well.
mazdaspeed7/BDC, one of you please post the thickness measurements of a set of orings.
For "RX7 13B 4 UR AZZ": I would be impressed if you somehow managed to install these twisted!#?
High runner failure modes:
1. orings too big?
2. too much hylomar - possibly combining with #1 -> hydraulic lock
3. oring temp range too low
4. QC/occasional bad batch?
5. oring channel is too small - tell Mazda to recall and fix their antique housings on their dime.
~7
PS - And measure a set, dammit
12-12-2007, 11:10 AM
#70
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 917
Trydis7, Unfortunately I don't have a new set of those o-rings here to measure.
Rx7 13B 4 Ur Azz, Ever messed with these o-rings before? They don't twist. Give it a try. If you're successful, let me know.
AnthonyNYC, Wait 'til you tear down and see what your rotor housings look like. Not only were both of my rotor housings scored slightly, I've heard of many others with the same thing.
Mazdaspeed7, if you're having to use a wooden template to re-form the o-ring into the shape of the o-ring land on the iron, then the product is not being sold as an as-is replacement for the stock ring (no mention of a wooden template for reforming these o-rings on their website atleast the last time I checked). It's (practically) requiring something else to be done. For those that aren't quite as smart you (like me), it's leaving us with a headache trying to figure out how to keep the o-ring seated in the land during assembly. Per the pictures I've posted in the previous pages here, you can see that what I was left to do was re-form it in each land with weights. Had no choice.
B
Rx7 13B 4 Ur Azz, Ever messed with these o-rings before? They don't twist. Give it a try. If you're successful, let me know.
AnthonyNYC, Wait 'til you tear down and see what your rotor housings look like. Not only were both of my rotor housings scored slightly, I've heard of many others with the same thing.
Mazdaspeed7, if you're having to use a wooden template to re-form the o-ring into the shape of the o-ring land on the iron, then the product is not being sold as an as-is replacement for the stock ring (no mention of a wooden template for reforming these o-rings on their website atleast the last time I checked). It's (practically) requiring something else to be done. For those that aren't quite as smart you (like me), it's leaving us with a headache trying to figure out how to keep the o-ring seated in the land during assembly. Per the pictures I've posted in the previous pages here, you can see that what I was left to do was re-form it in each land with weights. Had no choice.
B