Review of Rotary Aviation O-Ring Kit
02-25-2007, 09:18 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 524
It's like anything else aftermarket, if it doesn't work as advertised, then it's not worth using. As you've noted, and done.
We've had similar/worse problems with a certain brand of (high end) cylinder head gaskets that we use. Similar, in that they needed fiddling to use, worse, because sometimes they were just plain manufactured wrong, and we wouldn't know until the engine was fully assembled and installed. I won't name names, because the company has more than made good as far as redesign and compensating us for our losses, and that kind of integrity is rare in this industry. The only reason I don't use them in my non-rotary cars is simply because they don't make them for my tools of choice. (Yet.)
I've had no problems with the 18 gauge wire method for rotaries. Shocked at first that it worked at all, but work it does, and costs a hell of a lot less, too.
We've had similar/worse problems with a certain brand of (high end) cylinder head gaskets that we use. Similar, in that they needed fiddling to use, worse, because sometimes they were just plain manufactured wrong, and we wouldn't know until the engine was fully assembled and installed. I won't name names, because the company has more than made good as far as redesign and compensating us for our losses, and that kind of integrity is rare in this industry. The only reason I don't use them in my non-rotary cars is simply because they don't make them for my tools of choice. (Yet.)
I've had no problems with the 18 gauge wire method for rotaries. Shocked at first that it worked at all, but work it does, and costs a hell of a lot less, too.
02-25-2007, 09:42 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 564
Originally Posted by heretic' post='861127' date='Feb 25 2007, 08:18 PM
It's like anything else aftermarket, if it doesn't work as advertised, then it's not worth using. As you've noted, and done.
We've had similar/worse problems with a certain brand of (high end) cylinder head gaskets that we use. Similar, in that they needed fiddling to use, worse, because sometimes they were just plain manufactured wrong, and we wouldn't know until the engine was fully assembled and installed. I won't name names, because the company has more than made good as far as redesign and compensating us for our losses, and that kind of integrity is rare in this industry. The only reason I don't use them in my non-rotary cars is simply because they don't make them for my tools of choice. (Yet.)
I've had no problems with the 18 gauge wire method for rotaries. Shocked at first that it worked at all, but work it does, and costs a hell of a lot less, too.
We've had similar/worse problems with a certain brand of (high end) cylinder head gaskets that we use. Similar, in that they needed fiddling to use, worse, because sometimes they were just plain manufactured wrong, and we wouldn't know until the engine was fully assembled and installed. I won't name names, because the company has more than made good as far as redesign and compensating us for our losses, and that kind of integrity is rare in this industry. The only reason I don't use them in my non-rotary cars is simply because they don't make them for my tools of choice. (Yet.)
I've had no problems with the 18 gauge wire method for rotaries. Shocked at first that it worked at all, but work it does, and costs a hell of a lot less, too.
Also the corner seal rubber they supply last about 1000 km's, it turns rock hard and crumbles away to dust in no time at all.
02-26-2007, 06:00 AM
#13
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 94
Have you contacted Rotary Aviation about it?
Anthony
Fiddling is one thing heretic, but having to use a wooden template to mold an o-ring that doesn't otherwise fit or questionably does is something entirely different. It's jacked up three of my builds because those o-rings don't otherwise fit some of the time. Having to do modifications is fine; I've been doing that for 10 years now, but good grief -- when you buy o-rings per an "O-ring kit" you'd expect them atleast be basically reliable, right? They ought to be able to fit the stinkin' engine they're designed for and not give these kinds of annoying problems over and over, right? Not to mention these strange, overheating-like issues they seem to show....
B
Anthony
Originally Posted by BDC' post='861116' date='Feb 25 2007, 09:15 PM
Fiddling is one thing heretic, but having to use a wooden template to mold an o-ring that doesn't otherwise fit or questionably does is something entirely different. It's jacked up three of my builds because those o-rings don't otherwise fit some of the time. Having to do modifications is fine; I've been doing that for 10 years now, but good grief -- when you buy o-rings per an "O-ring kit" you'd expect them atleast be basically reliable, right? They ought to be able to fit the stinkin' engine they're designed for and not give these kinds of annoying problems over and over, right? Not to mention these strange, overheating-like issues they seem to show....
B
02-26-2007, 10:39 AM
#14
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 917
Originally Posted by AnthonyNYC' post='861169' date='Feb 26 2007, 04:00 AM
Have you contacted Rotary Aviation about it?
Anthony
Nope, I haven't. While it wouldn't be fair to judge them on a motive that I'm not certain of, my guess is they wouldn't go out of their way to make a change to the o-ring or their overall process just because I'm complaining. My suspicion is such because of my perceived lack of quality control on their part when they manufactured and flooded the market initially with their apex seal that was shown to produce rapidly accelerative wear on rotor housings. Because of stuff like that, and because of the randomness of the problems I've had with their o-rings, I wonder if it'd even be worth it in the first place to write them about it.
B
02-26-2007, 02:04 PM
#16
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 305
It's interesting ready Brian. I personally don't have any experience with them, as I won't try anything but the OEM seals because they work every time. If there were an issue with the OE seals not working, then I would be on the hunt for something better to replace them. I have had to stockers up to 150C in the Falken FD, and not had them fail. Infact, I haven't had an O-ring failure in a very long time, and even then, it wasn't the o-rings fault. It was mine (I pinched it) and it was my motor, so no harm no foul 
My opinion is for long coolant seal life, it requires annual coolant change and flush, and obviously not overheating the engine to a point that either the o-rings fail or the irons/housings warp. Most of the selection of parts for a rebuild depends on what the builder likes to use. In my case, I prefer mostly OEM parts for gaskets, o-rings and seals as they last well, and install fairly easy.
My opinion is for long coolant seal life, it requires annual coolant change and flush, and obviously not overheating the engine to a point that either the o-rings fail or the irons/housings warp. Most of the selection of parts for a rebuild depends on what the builder likes to use. In my case, I prefer mostly OEM parts for gaskets, o-rings and seals as they last well, and install fairly easy.
02-27-2007, 10:45 AM
#17
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 917
Originally Posted by SpeedMachine' post='861218' date='Feb 26 2007, 12:04 PM
It's interesting ready Brian. I personally don't have any experience with them, as I won't try anything but the OEM seals because they work every time. If there were an issue with the OE seals not working, then I would be on the hunt for something better to replace them. I have had to stockers up to 150C in the Falken FD, and not had them fail. Infact, I haven't had an O-ring failure in a very long time, and even then, it wasn't the o-rings fault. It was mine (I pinched it) and it was my motor, so no harm no foul
My opinion is for long coolant seal life, it requires annual coolant change and flush, and obviously not overheating the engine to a point that either the o-rings fail or the irons/housings warp. Most of the selection of parts for a rebuild depends on what the builder likes to use. In my case, I prefer mostly OEM parts for gaskets, o-rings and seals as they last well, and install fairly easy.
Hi Dave,
I originally started using them because of the superior technology of encaspulation of silicone within a teflon jacket as well as because of the re-usability factor. I liked the idea of popping apart a motor and re-using all the o-rings, therefore potentially reducing rebuild costs. But after the inconsistency with this particular kit, I doubt I'll try it again, unless I have the o-rings made myself. The stockers have been proven to work for a gajillion years, so why fix somethin' if it ain't broke, right?
B
02-27-2007, 02:34 PM
#18
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
yeah reuseability would be neato, but thats the only real problem with the stockers, that ive seen. sure when you get to 200,000miles and 20 years, the water seals are tired, but so is everything else....
02-28-2007, 12:18 PM
#19
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 305
Originally Posted by BDC' post='861363' date='Feb 27 2007, 04:45 PM
Hi Dave,
I originally started using them because of the superior technology of encaspulation of silicone within a teflon jacket as well as because of the re-usability factor. I liked the idea of popping apart a motor and re-using all the o-rings, therefore potentially reducing rebuild costs. But after the inconsistency with this particular kit, I doubt I'll try it again, unless I have the o-rings made myself. The stockers have been proven to work for a gajillion years, so why fix somethin' if it ain't broke, right?
B
I agree completely, but you are right, alot of the time the QC isn't what you as the builder would like to see. Like the oil control rings that other companies make out of Viton. One company that makes them, they are a standard size, or are too big, so they are really hard to install. We took the inner and outer o-rings to a local company that makes o-rings out of any type material, and they made them exactly the same size as the stock ones, and they are a piece of cake to install. We don't even sell them anymore because I am running low, and don't want to have to order another 1000 of each size again
But yeah, the old saying still holds more true than anything. If it ain't broke, don't fix it
03-03-2007, 11:30 AM
#20
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by heretic' post='861127' date='Feb 25 2007, 10:18 PM
I've had no problems with the 18 gauge wire method for rotaries. Shocked at first that it worked at all, but work it does, and costs a hell of a lot less, too.
Single or multi-strand 18gauge wire? You silicone around it I assume? I think I'm gonna try this on a spare 12a