Porting finish tech help (Ito streetport))
05-05-2007, 02:48 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 265
well i was running the stock twins with all the Seq pipe work on but i recently decided to go single (A manifold/Gate/Pipe work came up for good money) so i'm just reading up about the turbo i would be best with, TBH its looking very much like the Garrett T04Z (HPIB proper Garrett not the HKS)
So we'll see how it goes.
So we'll see how it goes.
05-14-2007, 04:05 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 917
Why in the world would we want to port a secondary intake port so aggressively that it creates a problem with the side seal, during every single stroke, making it drop out of the groove partially, just to try and create a work-around by porting the closing edge of the port so aggressively as to try and scoop it right back in?! 
05-18-2007, 11:22 AM
#13
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Posts: 500
My thoughts exactly. There is no point to this.....
Why in the world would we want to port a secondary intake port so aggressively that it creates a problem with the side seal, during every single stroke, making it drop out of the groove partially, just to try and create a work-around by porting the closing edge of the port so aggressively as to try and scoop it right back in?!
Originally Posted by BDC' post='871788' date='May 14 2007, 01:05 PM
Why in the world would we want to port a secondary intake port so aggressively that it creates a problem with the side seal, during every single stroke, making it drop out of the groove partially, just to try and create a work-around by porting the closing edge of the port so aggressively as to try and scoop it right back in?!
05-29-2007, 01:13 PM
#14
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Newberg, OR
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Lynn E. Hanover' post='869235' date='Apr 23 2007, 07:01 AM
If you ran your tongue over that port at 100 MPH
Gahh.... Thats a terrible thing to make people think of.
05-30-2007, 07:02 PM
#15
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Ohio (Hebron) Zephyrhills Fla.
Posts: 1,322
Originally Posted by rotorwiki' post='873401' date='May 29 2007, 11:13 AM
Gahh.... Thats a terrible thing to make people think of.
A gift for you that will follow you to the grave.
Notice that opening an intake port toward the outside will remove support for the trailing end of the side seal. The geometry is such that this is not a giant problem. The side seal springs are quite soft and the seal is relatively rigid, so even unsupported, very little of the seal will extend below flush with the iron.
Two locations for trouble still exist however. If the seal is going to become unsupported while traversing the port, it must be left so until it reaches the closing line. Should the edge of the port pass under the tip of the seal before it gets to the closing line, it will pinch the end of the seal and break off a piece, or round off the corner and give you a bit of compression loss.
I raise the outer end of the closing line, so that the seal regains the iron from the inside to the outside of the closing line. The depth of the port at this location is nearly zero, so the effective closing line as far as flow is concerned is long passed and the port is closed.
Even though there is the ability to get away with this unsupported end idea, one must not get carried away when moving the port opening. Once the track of the trailing end is just off of the iron, stop moving the line further. Notice that moving the line further will unsupport the seal well up its length, as the rotor moves away from TDC, and as the trailing end drops into the port, it will really drop into the port a long way, and tricks at the closing line is not going to save it for very long.
In no case can you drop the leading end of the seal off the iron in a conventional looking port. The IMSA guys had a rule about no bridge ports, so they came up with the finger or comb port. You could support the leading end of the seal across most of the port and no damage would be done. Like a giant street port with three fingers reaching into the port from the intake runner side to suport the corner seal and the leading end of the side seal. Good for over 250 HP with a bored out Niki 4 barrel carb. The carb work was top secrete and everyone kept them covered up.
The oil is never too cool.
Lynn E. Hanover
06-02-2007, 12:26 PM
#16
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 284
Wow, impressive oil cooling! What type of lines are you using with those coolers?
A gift for you that will follow you to the grave.
Notice that opening an intake port toward the outside will remove support for the trailing end of the side seal. The geometry is such that this is not a giant problem. The side seal springs are quite soft and the seal is relatively rigid, so even unsupported, very little of the seal will extend below flush with the iron.
Two locations for trouble still exist however. If the seal is going to become unsupported while traversing the port, it must be left so until it reaches the closing line. Should the edge of the port pass under the tip of the seal before it gets to the closing line, it will pinch the end of the seal and break off a piece, or round off the corner and give you a bit of compression loss.
I raise the outer end of the closing line, so that the seal regains the iron from the inside to the outside of the closing line. The depth of the port at this location is nearly zero, so the effective closing line as far as flow is concerned is long passed and the port is closed.
Even though there is the ability to get away with this unsupported end idea, one must not get carried away when moving the port opening. Once the track of the trailing end is just off of the iron, stop moving the line further. Notice that moving the line further will unsupport the seal well up its length, as the rotor moves away from TDC, and as the trailing end drops into the port, it will really drop into the port a long way, and tricks at the closing line is not going to save it for very long.
In no case can you drop the leading end of the seal off the iron in a conventional looking port. The IMSA guys had a rule about no bridge ports, so they came up with the finger or comb port. You could support the leading end of the seal across most of the port and no damage would be done. Like a giant street port with three fingers reaching into the port from the intake runner side to suport the corner seal and the leading end of the side seal. Good for over 250 HP with a bored out Niki 4 barrel carb. The carb work was top secrete and everyone kept them covered up.
The oil is never too cool.
Lynn E. Hanover
Originally Posted by Lynn E. Hanover' post='873560' date='May 30 2007, 08:02 PM
A gift for you that will follow you to the grave.
Notice that opening an intake port toward the outside will remove support for the trailing end of the side seal. The geometry is such that this is not a giant problem. The side seal springs are quite soft and the seal is relatively rigid, so even unsupported, very little of the seal will extend below flush with the iron.
Two locations for trouble still exist however. If the seal is going to become unsupported while traversing the port, it must be left so until it reaches the closing line. Should the edge of the port pass under the tip of the seal before it gets to the closing line, it will pinch the end of the seal and break off a piece, or round off the corner and give you a bit of compression loss.
I raise the outer end of the closing line, so that the seal regains the iron from the inside to the outside of the closing line. The depth of the port at this location is nearly zero, so the effective closing line as far as flow is concerned is long passed and the port is closed.
Even though there is the ability to get away with this unsupported end idea, one must not get carried away when moving the port opening. Once the track of the trailing end is just off of the iron, stop moving the line further. Notice that moving the line further will unsupport the seal well up its length, as the rotor moves away from TDC, and as the trailing end drops into the port, it will really drop into the port a long way, and tricks at the closing line is not going to save it for very long.
In no case can you drop the leading end of the seal off the iron in a conventional looking port. The IMSA guys had a rule about no bridge ports, so they came up with the finger or comb port. You could support the leading end of the seal across most of the port and no damage would be done. Like a giant street port with three fingers reaching into the port from the intake runner side to suport the corner seal and the leading end of the side seal. Good for over 250 HP with a bored out Niki 4 barrel carb. The carb work was top secrete and everyone kept them covered up.
The oil is never too cool.
Lynn E. Hanover
06-03-2007, 06:09 PM
#18
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Ohio (Hebron) Zephyrhills Fla.
Posts: 1,322
Originally Posted by Heath' post='873816' date='Jun 2 2007, 10:26 AM
Wow, impressive oil cooling! What type of lines are you using with those coolers?
The hoses and hose ends are Aeroquip. It is the push on style and has a 250 pound rating. It is very light and the hose ends come in just about any shape you could need. You may need a really big friend to shove the hose onto the fitting. Or use an old metal fitting to screw the hose end into and clamp the fitting and hose end in a vice. Lube it up with hand cleaner and push like hell.
As far as oil cooling is concerned, here is my thinking. The lead indium overly on the bearing surface has a low melting temperature. The face of the rotors runs about 400 degrees. There is only circulating oil between
that 400 degree face and the back side of the bearing.
Oil temperature in the oil wedge between the bearing face and the crank may be 200 degrees hotter than the oil supply. That wedge temp goes up with load. So in normal driving there is no need for any worry about oil temps.
On the other hand, if you live where its hot all of the time, and you like to tach whip way up where the red line ends, then you should think very seriously about adding some oil cooling. If you get a real big bearing load and are trying to cool that bearing with overheated oil, you may discover that terrible sag in power when the bearing welds itself to the crank.
Another point is that oil temps above 160 degrees allow rotor face temps to go high also. This higher rotor face and chamber temp will not allow a full charge of fuel air mixture to enter the chamber. NA or boosted, still the same.
The film strength goes down with temperature.
For a pass on the dyno, or down the drag strip, is probably not a big problem. A 45 minute road race is completely different. You must have control of your oil temperature.
So if oil temps are high go real easy on the power.
The bearings are huge for the loads involved, and the need for higher oil pressure is to move heated oil off of the bearing quickly. To keep the bearing cool.
About 1/3 of all waste BTUs leaves through the oil. So, when you hold the throttle open for a long time, and the number of BTUs goes up by ten or 15 times that applies to oil at the same ratio. Gas engines (including the rotary) are about 29% efficient so about 71% of the fuel goes to make heat that we must get out of the car in a controlled way and and it does not help the car move along at all.
That oil cooler is starting to look kinda small isn't it?
Lynn E. Hanover
06-05-2007, 10:00 AM
#19
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
Originally Posted by Lynn E. Hanover' post='873952' date='Jun 3 2007, 04:09 PM
For a pass on the dyno, or down the drag strip, is probably not a big problem. A 45 minute road race is completely different. You must have control of your oil temperature.
Lynn E. Hanover
yep! or a 3 hour road race! we had to run the kumho's at full tread depth, cause they get too hot and blister, then we just went back to the toyo, cause they last fine...
