Ceramic Apex seals, yeah or nay?
09-10-2007, 08:57 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jensen Beach, FL / Sylva, NC
Posts: 2,934
I need a new set of 2mm apex seals, I have read a bunch on here and see lots of opinions on what is and is not good. I have decided to just go with a set of Mazda seals.
I logged into my Mazdaspeed account and now see I can get ceramic but I am unsure. Should I go stock 2mm Mazda Apex seals or go with the competition grade ceramic?
Do I trust what Mazdaspeed has to say?
Or these
Or do I just go with a set of stock 2mm seals and be done with it.
On last question, does anyone know the Mazda Part # for an apex seal set?
Thanks.
I logged into my Mazdaspeed account and now see I can get ceramic but I am unsure. Should I go stock 2mm Mazda Apex seals or go with the competition grade ceramic?
Do I trust what Mazdaspeed has to say?
C
APEX SEAL 2MM-13BTT
1
13B NT, T, TT
ALL RX
1986-95
$273.80
2 mm width, 1 piece 2 spring design. Ceramic apex seal uses a two spring design for higher spring pressure to improve chamber sealing, and provide the following benefits: Exceptional sealing characteristics at all temperatures, Low Friction, Low Weight, Show little to no wear, Can withstand damaging engine detonation better than any stock or carbon seal, and will not absorb moisture when engine is stored. Well worth every penny. Includes precut springs. Only sold in sets of three. SOLD AND PRICED THREE AT A TIME. QTY 2 = 6 SEALS. Can handle approximately 19 lbs. of boost.
APEX SEAL 2MM-13BTT
1
13B NT, T, TT
ALL RX
1986-95
$273.80
2 mm width, 1 piece 2 spring design. Ceramic apex seal uses a two spring design for higher spring pressure to improve chamber sealing, and provide the following benefits: Exceptional sealing characteristics at all temperatures, Low Friction, Low Weight, Show little to no wear, Can withstand damaging engine detonation better than any stock or carbon seal, and will not absorb moisture when engine is stored. Well worth every penny. Includes precut springs. Only sold in sets of three. SOLD AND PRICED THREE AT A TIME. QTY 2 = 6 SEALS. Can handle approximately 19 lbs. of boost.
Or these
C
S APEX SEAL, 13B/3MM
1
13B
ALL RX
1986-95
$223.00
1 Piece, 3mm. For high boost applications. Slightly shorter length to compensate for heat expansion. Can handle approximately 24 pounds of boost. Ceramic apex seal uses a two spring design for higher spring pressure to improve chamber sealing, and provide the following benefits: Exceptional sealing characteristics at all temperatures, Low Friction, Low Weight, Show little to no wear, Can withstand damaging engine detonation better than any stock or carbon seal, and will not absorb moisture when engine is stored. Well worth every penny. Includes precut springs. Only sold in sets of three. SOLD AND PRICED THREE AT A TIME. QTY 2 = 6 SEALS.
S APEX SEAL, 13B/3MM
1
13B
ALL RX
1986-95
$223.00
1 Piece, 3mm. For high boost applications. Slightly shorter length to compensate for heat expansion. Can handle approximately 24 pounds of boost. Ceramic apex seal uses a two spring design for higher spring pressure to improve chamber sealing, and provide the following benefits: Exceptional sealing characteristics at all temperatures, Low Friction, Low Weight, Show little to no wear, Can withstand damaging engine detonation better than any stock or carbon seal, and will not absorb moisture when engine is stored. Well worth every penny. Includes precut springs. Only sold in sets of three. SOLD AND PRICED THREE AT A TIME. QTY 2 = 6 SEALS.
Or do I just go with a set of stock 2mm seals and be done with it.
On last question, does anyone know the Mazda Part # for an apex seal set?
Thanks.
09-10-2007, 09:42 PM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 2,763
People push the stock 2mm seals way past even the 19 psi listed for the ceramics there. The benefits of the ceramic are the weight, and the low friction. Ceramics in general exhibit very low friction with only minimal amounts of lubrication. The seals wont wear much, and are nicer on housings given proper lubrication. Ceramics with no lubrication are rather abrasive though. I dont know if that would ever be an issue in an engine, I dont have experience with ceramic seals. The lighter weight keeps the seals from chattering at high rpm.
I would stay away from 3mm though. They arent really any stronger under detonation than 2 mm, and they dont seal nearly as well. Also more prone to chattering at higher rpm.
I would stay away from 3mm though. They arent really any stronger under detonation than 2 mm, and they dont seal nearly as well. Also more prone to chattering at higher rpm.
09-11-2007, 07:27 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 2,871
Has anyone asked them about the prices? I saw those a while ago and they seem crazy low priced. I think they are Sven, aka Glassman from RX7 Club, seals, but that price is loooow!
http://members.shaw.ca/nrsrotorsports/index.html
http://members.shaw.ca/nrsrotorsports/index.html
09-11-2007, 08:30 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jensen Beach, FL / Sylva, NC
Posts: 2,934
The prices quoted above are only for approved Mazdaspeed members. You have to prove your racing your Mazda in order to get these prices and yes, they are insanely low.
Some friends of mine were freaked out over how cheap I can get housings and end plates.
I have decided to just go with 2mm OEM seals. I am ordering them tomorrow, while the whole ceramic argument has merit, it is mostly applied to non-turbo motors and I am not sure they will last with the punishment I dish out to my engines.
Maybe next time if I do not give up on this car.
Some friends of mine were freaked out over how cheap I can get housings and end plates.
I have decided to just go with 2mm OEM seals. I am ordering them tomorrow, while the whole ceramic argument has merit, it is mostly applied to non-turbo motors and I am not sure they will last with the punishment I dish out to my engines.
Maybe next time if I do not give up on this car.
09-11-2007, 09:32 PM
#7
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 2,871
you may want to check out this thread;
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=182522&page=16
It's 16 pages long, there's a dyno chart making 980 at the wheels on what must be a 2 rotor with ceramics.
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=182522&page=16
It's 16 pages long, there's a dyno chart making 980 at the wheels on what must be a 2 rotor with ceramics.
09-12-2007, 11:25 AM
#8
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by TYSON' post='882513' date='Sep 11 2007, 10:32 PM
you may want to check out this thread;
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=182522&page=16
It's 16 pages long, there's a dyno chart making 980 at the wheels on what must be a 2 rotor with ceramics.
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=182522&page=16
It's 16 pages long, there's a dyno chart making 980 at the wheels on what must be a 2 rotor with ceramics.
It is a 13B engine, from Colon Motorsport full chassis FD drag car; tuned by Gaby Skern.
09-12-2007, 05:27 PM
#9
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 83
Those prices for the ceramics are for ONE seal to replace a bad seal.
If you look at all the seals available the part # 0000-01-9103 without the final -01 is the same description (priced $906 for 3)except at the description header it says "SEAL KIT" and the 0000-01-9103-01 has a description header of "APEX SEAL".
If you look at all the seals available the part # 0000-01-9103 without the final -01 is the same description (priced $906 for 3)except at the description header it says "SEAL KIT" and the 0000-01-9103-01 has a description header of "APEX SEAL".
09-14-2007, 08:25 AM
#10
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jensen Beach, FL / Sylva, NC
Posts: 2,934
Blue - you are correct. I went back an reread it and realized it was for one. A full set is pretty pricey.
I decided to go with the OEM 2MM seals. I was at Pettit's yesterday and we bartered a trade I had done some work for him so I traded it out for a sull set of Apex seals and corner seals.
I hope to have my engine back together next week. Then the fun of breaking it in starts.
I decided to go with the OEM 2MM seals. I was at Pettit's yesterday and we bartered a trade I had done some work for him so I traded it out for a sull set of Apex seals and corner seals.
I hope to have my engine back together next week. Then the fun of breaking it in starts.