z-beater

Jeff,



The SE does have an external pump. However as you already know it will not flow enough. If I was more familiar I would be more than happy helping you choose a FP but I am only familiar with FI setups. lol The tank is baffled so there is no worries there. Also the pick up tube is huge. Right under .5" in diameter. The lines are also fairly decent sized but I can't remember the size atm. IIRC(and don't quote me on this) they are around 6AN.



I am running a REW in my car with a large single. Here is my fuel setup from the tank to the rails:



Stock SE tank

100 micron filter

Aeromotive a1000

6AN SS Braided line

Fuel filter



For the return I used the stock feed line.



I would love to check out the project some time. I have always wanted to put a 4-rotor in a SA/FB.



I also saw someone that put a cosmo engine in a FB. Since the motor mounts are located to the rear they made mounts that extended to the front. I would not advise this since the distance is quite large.



Are you going to be running this like a true 4-rotor? Or just 2 mated 12a's?



Z

Jeff20B

The lines on a GSL-SE are 8mm or 5/16". Even the JC Cosmo with the 20B uses the same size lines. Of course being fuel injected and at around 43psi helps.



Since we're planning on running two weber 2bbl carbs, we're going to need at least 3/8" or possibly 1/2" line to supply enough at the lower pressure a carb typically sees. I'd imagine the tank's supply line to the pump is only 5/16", so this may present a problem if we decide to keep the tank. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if we just went with a fuel cell instead, and use at least -8AN throughout.



My 20B had a decent setup.



16 gallon fuel cell

-8AN fittings

3/8" prepump filter

255lph Walbro pump

3/8" brake line as send line

100 micron EFI filter



The return line used the car's stock send/return lines Teed together with the breather line (all 1/4")



The injector rails would pressurise very quickly.



I wonder why the person with the Cosmo engine didn't simply swap front covers. I'd imagine only a GSL-SE pan would fit a 13B correctly in a 1st gen engine bay. Then again, the FD engine that used to occupy this GSL-SE had some U channel stock fitted around the steering centerlink to use the stock FD mounts in the FD position, and the FD pan seemed to fit fine, I think. The motor mounts on the main crossmember were cut off to accomplish this. I was thinking since they were already cut off, it wouldn't be too difficult to fab something new to mount the 4 rotor in there after the U-channel is removed.



It will definitely run like a true 4 rotor with one rotor face firing every 90°. Honestly, if there were no shafts available for the 90° firing order, I would not be interested in this project.

z-beater

That setup you had sounds pretty solid. And that is pretty neat with the teed line.



On mounting the cosmo engine my thoughts exactly. Seems like a lot more work. But I guess that it is a viable option of you do not want to rip into the engine. When you get that thing mounted in there make sure to take pictures. If you did pick up a 4-rotor e-shaft then I am sure that you could still probably use the SE mounts and just "re-adjust" the firewall. Then take a little more off the TII tranny to make it bolt in the correct location. A N/A 4-rotor would provide power and reliability. Can't really beat that. What are you expecting from the engine?



Where are you planning to get the E-shaft. IIRC there are only a couple people that make them. Kiwi and another one that is escaping me right now. Also I am interested in the cost of one of these units. I know that the 4-rotor kit from Kiwi is in the tune of 9k or something like that. Kinda spendy IMO.



I agree I have heard that the "true" 4-rotor sounds better. But honestly I have never heard a 4-rotor in person.



What kind of ignition system are you planning on using?

Bitteliten

just had to link this.. =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHqAi...&search=rotary

Jeff20B

I think he was going to use the GSL-SE tranny at first. Then switch to a T2 when it breaks. Kind of a waste of a GSL-SE tranny. Maybe I can convince him to go T2 from the beginning.



We were expecting about 100HP from each rotor. Does that sound right for a 12A sized rotor and a modest P-port? There is no need to go as large as MFR sized ports on this engine. Just a modestly sized set of ports that peak lower than 8k because this will be used on the street. Heck, I'd settle for peaking at 6k like some stock ports.



Jeff Bruce. We'll just be getting the basics from him to keep the costs down. We already have the rest of the parts sitting here or within easy reach. No need for an expensive kit.



The exhaust I'm planning to build should allow the nice 4 rotor sound to come through. My 20B sounded pretty sweet. This will be louder of course (peripheral ports don't like to be muffled very much).



Since we'll be using carbs, a modded dizzy system will be used. If we ever go ITBs, then I'll let the ECU handle the ignition. Each leading plug will get a spark every 180° like a 2 rotor with a direct fire ignition comonly known as 'wasted spark' or simultaneously fired. It'll be a lot easier to set up than the 20B was.

Danomite

How long ago did you place your order?

z-beater

Jeff, Thanks for the information. I would really like to learn from this build. I was wondering if you would document the entire build, especially the engine build? Pictures are optimal.



As far as the tranny goes I just would fork over the 250 for a good tranny from the get go. It saves a lot of headaches down the road. Your total cost to put a T2 tranny would be about 550 if you got a custom driveshaft. 250 for a good T2 tranny and 300 for a custom shaft. When a budget is in mind though this can quickly be altered.



If you are planning on 400rwhp then the rear end might want to be changed out. People *say* that when you are at 350-400rw you are on the bubble. It really depends what you are doing with the car. I personally plan to beat the hell out of mine and see what she can do. So many people change them out for the heavy, clunky 8.8" ford units. Sure they can hold the hp but they also rob it from you... I have heard that additional bracing helps as well. I can discuss this more indepth at the annual BBQ if you plan on making it.



What is included in the "basics"?



You are planning 4 ignitors then for the ignition? With direct fire of course!





Anyway thanks for the information thus far. If you can't tell I am really interested in this project!



Z

Jeff20B

Danomite, we haven't placed the order yet. My friend is over in Korea at the moment. We'll discuss it when he gets back.



Z, I thought I recognised your user name from somewhere. Are you a mod in the NW section of the club forum or something?



I'm kinda busy but occasionally find the time to write threads here and there. If I do document this project on a forum, I'd probably do it here in the 1st gen section. I documented my 20B conversion in the 20B forum. Hmm, maybe I ought to document the 4 rotor project in this forum instead? I also wonder how 'public' my friend wants this project to be as he is not a member of any forums as far as I know.



Well, a T2 tranny would be a lot better in the long run. I'm not sure how far his budget is willing to go. He's funding the project, I just get to work on it. Hurray!



As for the rearend, they say the '84-'85 units have stronger axles but thinner housings leading to easier breaking due to flexing. Some bracing, if we knew where to add it, sounds like a good idea. I'd much prefer to keep the stock rear end instead of swapping to a Ford 8.8 or heaven forbid a big nine incher.



The basics include the shaft, tension stud set, dowel set, mods to two intermediate plates and the stationary gears that fit into them. I'm not sure about the counterweights. I'm also not sure whether we're supposed to send him the intermediate plates so he can mod them and send them back, or if we're supposed to purchase them new through him. I'd prefer to send them down there. How much could shipping cost round trip?



Yeah, ignition will be QLIDFISw/LLS. Quadruple Leading Ignitor Direct Fire Ignition System with Late Leading Spark. I'm sure it'll work great because TLIDFIS worked fine on the 20B before I went with a MegaSquirt (it still has the late leading sparks, which took some work, and sounds like the Pac Performance RX-3, although mine can rev quicker because it's NA ). The dizzy is easier to mod for QLIDFIS than it was for TLIDFIS as it only needs two pickups instead of three.



It's fun to write about it. I'm just trying to fit the various bits of it in with my other projects. I won't be able to jump fully into this project until mine are done. I've got an MG Midget 13B conversion to get running and I've gotta pull the 20B out for a teardown in the next few weeks. I installed an RB LT ST flywheel on the 13B today and I've gotta move a few things around in the garage in order to install it in the MG. Too many projects, not enough garage space.

Danomite

He uses a stock front weight and makes the rear weight, but the shaft still needs to be balanced, which he can do as long as you have accurate rotor weights, or you will have to balance the assy here. Its up to you whether you send him the irons and gears or have him supply them. Keep in mind the exchange rate (avg-1us/1.58nz) which helps quite a bit. He figured shipping to be about 1k for the parts you listed, including the irons and gears. So figure about 300 to ship two irons and gears to him.



Dano

z-beater

Nope, Just a forum member. But I do remember meeting you at the last BBQ, my car was not there but I was on my street bike.



I would be happy with it being in either place. I am sure that it is hard to choose a section because this build falls into so many sub-forums. Ie, 1st gen, engine swaps, and this one. I would be happy just to see a thread.



When it comes down to it a lot of people do not have the money to upgrade their SA/FB's. A write-up like this is a FAIRLY cost effective and relaible mod if you need to change out your engine. If your friend is ok with it I would love to read about this. And if he is up to it sometime actually take a look at it. He would surely be the attention getter at any meet with a setup like this. This may or may not be his cup of tea.



I have heard the same thing about the 84-85's. I have also heard that you can swap moser axles into the rear-end. SlammedGSL posted about it a while ago. The most important thing to remember about the rear end is that torque is what kills it. If you could brace it in a way that the housing cannot twist you would be far better off. I have quite a few ideas that are mulling around in my head and I plan on putting them to use later down the road once I blow up my current rear end(180k miles). When it comes down to it I cannot justify spending the 1k to get a "good" 8.8" and then after all that loosing hp and gaining 80lbs. Only benefit to a 9" is the ease of swapping gears IMO.



WOW, I thought that shipping would be worse that 300. Let us know what the exact amount is going to be. Are you planning on using stock ignitors? Since you are on a budget I would assume so. I will have to take a look at your dizzy mod on the 20b. I actually have not read through that thread. I love project threads.



There will never be enough garage space. I need a 40x60 shop, and I only have 2 cars and 2 bikes