13b-re + 13b Gsl-se Oilpan = Pickup?
03-07-2005, 10:24 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bay Area, Ca
Posts: 27
Hey guys, got a couple of questions:
OK, so I have a 240z with a 13b-re in it, converted to single turbo. In process of putting it all together. To mount it, I am using a 12a front engine cover, I sourced a [beat up oil pan from a crappy seller on rx7club.com] which is only good for testing purposes. With the 12a cover + gsl-se oilpan, the bolt holes all line up correctly, which is great. However, the oil pickup is obviously different
I'm not familiar with the 84/5 gsl-se motor, but can I use the pickup from a 1st gen 13b motor and directly bolt it to the RE? I can't imagine the oil pickup being different from an earlier model? Or do I need to modify my existing pickup?
2. does anyone know where I can get that stupid primary rail spacer clip? Mine seems to have grown legs and disappear... is the part # same as a 13b series 5 motor?
3. Can I adapt a 12a mechanical OMP to the RE block? again, not too familiar with the 1st series motors. The RE has only 2 oil lines, whereas the 13b turbo had 4.. so I don't know how they different. If not, that's not a big deal - I can just run premix like everyone else
OK, so I have a 240z with a 13b-re in it, converted to single turbo. In process of putting it all together. To mount it, I am using a 12a front engine cover, I sourced a [beat up oil pan from a crappy seller on rx7club.com] which is only good for testing purposes. With the 12a cover + gsl-se oilpan, the bolt holes all line up correctly, which is great. However, the oil pickup is obviously different
I'm not familiar with the 84/5 gsl-se motor, but can I use the pickup from a 1st gen 13b motor and directly bolt it to the RE? I can't imagine the oil pickup being different from an earlier model? Or do I need to modify my existing pickup?
2. does anyone know where I can get that stupid primary rail spacer clip? Mine seems to have grown legs and disappear... is the part # same as a 13b series 5 motor?
3. Can I adapt a 12a mechanical OMP to the RE block? again, not too familiar with the 1st series motors. The RE has only 2 oil lines, whereas the 13b turbo had 4.. so I don't know how they different. If not, that's not a big deal - I can just run premix like everyone else
03-07-2005, 10:51 AM
#2
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 186
You can use the oil pickup tube from a 12A/13B series 1 they are the same. On the front cover if you want 4 oil lines you are going to have to use the gslse front cover. It's the only one with 4 oil lines and has the front mount. The spacer you can get from Mazdatrix look on their site I don't think it's to expensive. Shoot me a PM with a phone number I can probably hook you up with the parts you need.
03-07-2005, 03:09 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 116
Mm...the engine bay for a 240z is kinda big for just a 2 rotor 
..see where i am going with this .. lol ...
As for your problem , you could go dry sump and avoid all this . And if later on you wanna go 3 rotor , the dry sump would good too
As for your problem , you could go dry sump and avoid all this . And if later on you wanna go 3 rotor , the dry sump would good too
03-07-2005, 03:21 PM
#4
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by 13BTNOS' date='Mar 7 2005, 08:51 AM
You can use the oil pickup tube from a 12A/13B series 1 they are the same. On the front cover if you want 4 oil lines you are going to have to use the gslse front cover. It's the only one with 4 oil lines and has the front mount. The spacer you can get from Mazdatrix look on their site I don't think it's to expensive. Shoot me a PM with a phone number I can probably hook you up with the parts you need.
03-07-2005, 10:28 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 524
It looks like what I've been thinking is correct: There is exactly enough room between the 240Z crossmember and the firewall to sit the engine down in there low enough that the trans tunnel does not need to be hacked. Beautiful.
How are you mounting the engine? I don't see any kind of mounting there. I surely hope that the tiny little bracket attaching to the front cover's mount is not what you'll be using. When I would dream of swapping a rotary into an S30, it always involved altering the pre'86 style front motor mount bracket to attach to the S30's existing motor mount stands. You always want to have the motor mounts as far apart as possible, to be able to resist torque well while still having enough give to them to deal with vibration.
An alternative would be to mount a beefy torque brace to the top of the engine. This is similar to having two widely spaced motor mounts, except their functions become separated. The front cover mount does 100% of the engine support and only part of the torque resistance, while the torque brace only resists torque. Not as good as two far-spread motor mounts but it still works fairly well, it is the current OEM engine mounting paradigm after all.
It looks like, with the rotary, there is room not only for a strut tower brace that not only triangulates the strut towers to the firewall, but also each strut tower to the opposing framerail! if ever there was a chassis that needed that much stiffening, the 240Z is it.
How are you mounting the engine? I don't see any kind of mounting there. I surely hope that the tiny little bracket attaching to the front cover's mount is not what you'll be using. When I would dream of swapping a rotary into an S30, it always involved altering the pre'86 style front motor mount bracket to attach to the S30's existing motor mount stands. You always want to have the motor mounts as far apart as possible, to be able to resist torque well while still having enough give to them to deal with vibration.
An alternative would be to mount a beefy torque brace to the top of the engine. This is similar to having two widely spaced motor mounts, except their functions become separated. The front cover mount does 100% of the engine support and only part of the torque resistance, while the torque brace only resists torque. Not as good as two far-spread motor mounts but it still works fairly well, it is the current OEM engine mounting paradigm after all.
It looks like, with the rotary, there is room not only for a strut tower brace that not only triangulates the strut towers to the firewall, but also each strut tower to the opposing framerail! if ever there was a chassis that needed that much stiffening, the 240Z is it.
03-08-2005, 08:38 AM
#7
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: California
Posts: 22,465
Originally Posted by wotary' date='Mar 7 2005, 02:27 PM
engine room? sure.... i got that
Dry sump? No dinero for said tasks. would be nice not to worry about hitting the oilpan, because the engine sits so low
Dry sump? No dinero for said tasks. would be nice not to worry about hitting the oilpan, because the engine sits so low
sweet progress, dand showed me pics of that when it was still orange
03-08-2005, 09:30 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,108
THat is pretty damn cool. I thought the hot swap for 240Z was the RB26DETT motor. There is some guy on the hybridZ forum... maybe it was the other one... that has a orange widebody 72 240Z with a SR20DETT motor weighing less than 2000 lbs. I wonder how south of 2000 lbs you can get with a 13RE motor.
03-08-2005, 10:23 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bay Area, Ca
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by heretic' date='Mar 7 2005, 08:28 PM
How are you mounting the engine? I don't see any kind of mounting there. I surely hope that the tiny little bracket attaching to the front cover's mount is not what you'll be using. When I would dream of swapping a rotary into an S30, it always involved altering the pre'86 style front motor mount bracket to attach to the S30's existing motor mount stands. You always want to have the motor mounts as far apart as possible, to be able to resist torque well while still having enough give to them to deal with vibration.
The tiny little bracket is there to keep the engine in place so I know where it would sit exactly. I still need to make the reinforced version and put in a torque brace on one side
An alternative would be to mount a beefy torque brace to the top of the engine. This is similar to having two widely spaced motor mounts, except their functions become separated. The front cover mount does 100% of the engine support and only part of the torque resistance, while the torque brace only resists torque. Not as good as two far-spread motor mounts but it still works fairly well, it is the current OEM engine mounting paradigm after all.
It looks like, with the rotary, there is room not only for a strut tower brace that not only triangulates the strut towers to the firewall, but also each strut tower to the opposing framerail! if ever there was a chassis that needed that much stiffening, the 240Z is it.
sweet progress, dand showed me pics of that when it was still orange
Mine's always been black since I got it, inside the engine bay too. Original color was orange, but original color was painted over in '90
03-08-2005, 06:08 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 524
Ah-verrah-nass.
I'm sure the pre-86 bracket would not work without alteration. But alteration is always the cool part of an engine swap, getting to play with the angle grinders and the bandsaws and the figuring and fangling and then you get to weld it all together. The only real problem I could see is that the lower radiator hose might interfere with the bracket, but on the other hand, the angle might be such that the hose could be routed UNDER the bracket.
I just found a metal shop only a half hour from my home that is willing to let you rummage around in their shop, pick out anything you want, and they will cut up remnants/discards even smaller for you... AND they are only half to a third of the price of my normal go-to. I think I am in love.
I'm sure the pre-86 bracket would not work without alteration. But alteration is always the cool part of an engine swap, getting to play with the angle grinders and the bandsaws and the figuring and fangling and then you get to weld it all together. The only real problem I could see is that the lower radiator hose might interfere with the bracket, but on the other hand, the angle might be such that the hose could be routed UNDER the bracket.
I just found a metal shop only a half hour from my home that is willing to let you rummage around in their shop, pick out anything you want, and they will cut up remnants/discards even smaller for you... AND they are only half to a third of the price of my normal go-to. I think I am in love.