What do you guys recommend?



I was thinking of (after It's "parked" but still running when you initally put it into place) letting it idle, and then letting the motor choke itself on 2 stoke into the intake until she shuts down.



Then it would have a nice healthy layer of oil for protection and lubrication over winter, no?



Is there something else I should use?



I'm looking at approximately a 5-6 month rest period for my motor over winter.



I just want to pull it out from sleeping in spring without any troubles and no engine damage. I don't really care about smoke.



What do you guru's reccommend?

Basically,



wash, wax, vaccum,

increase air pressure in tires to 40 psi

pull battery

fuel stablizer in fuel tank

bricks infront and behind each tire

DO NOT USE parking brake

Leave car in gear

Aluminum foil over muffler tips

armour all on door seals

remove wiper blades and let arm rest on paper towel



then wish it was spring.

yah you prolly wanna have fresh fluids in the car too. and then change them when it comes out of hibernation.



due to the metering pump/premix there already is a coating of oil in the engine, if you want to put a couple drops of something in there it wont hurt it, but it wont help much either. if you really want to do it right go out and spin the engine over about a 1/2 turn every couple of weeks. starting it periodically is bad unless you can get it fully up to temp for 45+ minutes

Your gonna hydrolock your engine that way and do serious damage! You dont want to choke the engine by putting ANY fluid in the intake! https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683664.gif

Yeah, spin it and start it every few weeks. If the engine is old and you don't start it, the apex springs might flatten over time, giving you no compression when you want to revive your car next summer. So do forget about your car over the winter.



Oh disconnect the battery.



C

dont forget antifreeze if your car is not in a heated garage

No you don't, trust me, i've tried.... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



There was so much ATF in my old motor that half of the LIM was filled with it aswell, you could still turn it over by hand (with a braker bar...) with all this fluid in it, it would just push it straight out the exhaust...



Rotaries have terrible sealing at ultra low RPM's compared to piston motors.



And if your adding what ever, water(done this one aswell), 2-stroke, ATF, anything just about when the motor is running it will stall the engine from the fact that it is not flammable well before theres even nearly as much as how much i've put through my engine.

Like I said I was thinking about it but I have never stored one before so I wanted some ideas.



Thanks for the input guys.



I was under the impression that you can't hydraulically lock a rotary engine.



This car is getting alot of work over winter too. For one, I am removing the Metering Oil Pump. Should I just wait until after it's stored or something? I was thinking that fuel stabilizer + premix as a last tank wouldn't go over too well.

No you don't, trust me, i've tried.... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



There was so much ATF in my old motor that half of the LIM was filled with it aswell, you could still turn it over by hand (with a braker bar...) with all this fluid in it, it would just push it straight out the exhaust...



Rotaries have terrible sealing at ultra low RPM's compared to piston motors.



And if your adding what ever, water(done this one aswell), 2-stroke, ATF, anything just about when the motor is running it will stall the engine from the fact that it is not flammable well before theres even nearly as much as how much i've put through my engine. [/quote]

Yah but the difference is he was gonna do it to a running engine! Maybe im the only one who sees something wrong with this but....

I see something wrong with putting ATF in a running engine.

atf is corrosive to the side seals.....

I let a spare engine I had soak in ATF (and I mean it was full of the ****) for nearly a year and all the rubber seals in it showed no signs of corosion or deterioration from the ATF, in fact they were very clean.....



The side seals and all the other metal parts showed no signs of deterioration due to the ATF either...

They were however still completly caked in carbon build up, which leads me to the conclusion that ATF does SFA for carbon build up https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



RONIN FC, I wouldn't worry too much about adding 2-stroke oil to a running engine, it will end up stalling because 2-stroke wont combust... and I can't see that harming the engine at all.



and thats all ima gonna say about that...

Exactly what I thought. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/happy.png



Any comments on the last tank of fuel being a mix of stabilizer and premix? I still don't think that's the best idea, however I want to remove the MOP while the car is down for winter.

I'd personally drain the fuel if your leaving the car for a long time and just put some fresh stuff in when you next drive it...



With regards to removing the stock MOP I think thats a great idea, since i've removed mine I havn't looked back since. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png



As a bit of aside I recently took apart this engine that was running on premix for nearly a year and the internals didnt have any carbon buildup at all, the rotor surfaces were smooth and shiny, whereas the last engine I took appart that had the stock MOP connected had loads of carbon build up.. both motors were driven the same and both were tuned well...

More than a small coincidence I thought, that is one reason why I like recomending premix instead of the stock MOP.

I had internals from a stock MOP running 13B, and the carbon buildup on each rotor face was absolutely ridiculous.



4 stroke oil does not belong in the combustion chamber. That's what brought me to the decision.



Besides, having one apart, I plan on rebuilding my GXL's motor next winter (want to do it before it decides it doesn't want an apex seal anymore), and I would really like to compare the internals, having one running premix for a year or so.

http://www.aaroncake.net/RX-7/atftrick.htm

if you read on it explains that it is corrosive to the oil seals as well, prolly why you disassembled your spare engine... no offense but i think i'm gonna take aaron's info on this subject

Armor all kills paint.



DO NOT get a drop on the paint. Even a mist from a draft onto paint is very bad.



You won't notice until you go to repaint. You will get fish eyes in the new paint (dimples). The painter Dan at my work repainted a truck, and the owner went nuts with armor all, and there was TONS of fish eyes all over the hood, doors, painted trim, etc. Pretty much everywhere except the box of the pickup.



Edit: And all of them were cause by a draft to push some mist from the spray bottle when he was spraying the dash and other interior pieces.



To get rid of it he has to sand them out and smooth it over (which takes alot of time, which we all know equals money if you aren't doing it yourself). Not to mention repainting. It's basically a huge nightmare.



As for the ATF trick, I have heard of ATF eating seals. MMO is much safer. My 13B internals had MMO sitting in the motor for a while by the previous owner. I haven't had any problems. I can't really tell you how well it worked because I haven't pulled the motor apart, but.. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png

Your supposed to Prep-All the old paint before you sand. Prep-All is a thinner based cleaner used to clean the surface before and after steps in body work.

I'll ask Dan at work, but he said he tried everything to prevent it from happening and it did anyways.



He's been in painting autos for about 20 years, so I can't picture him not knowing what it is. I'll ask anyways though and see what he says.

100% correct CollinRX7, armorall is baaaaad **** when its get on paint. you have to sand back the area effected because normal thinners do not remove it.





Back to the ATF, i've read arron cakes take on it before and im sure the info he has read about it is correct, however all im saying is that is was not corossive to ANY rubber seals in my engine that sat in the stuff for over a year... Including the oil seals obviously.....



But obviously real world experience doesn't count for much https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

Thats bull! i've painted cars that the tires were armor-all ed every weekend! I never got fisheyes.Allot of painters look at me like im crazy when i prep-all the old paint. If the paint is so oxidated that armor all or any oil gets absorbed into it you can see it, and if you ignored it you deserved to get fish eyes for doin a hack job.



"But obviously real world experience doesn't count for much"



If you think most of the people in here don't have "real world experience" your in the wrong place. Thinking your more "experienced" than everyone gets you no where.





BTW next time you see a 3 foot deep puddle, drive into it, but before you do, keep your engine at redline!

Yeah my bad, sorry for being so completly arogant and obviously wrong... https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/wacko.png



Its just that a good friend of mine who happens to work in a paint shop has told me you can't get armoall off paint work very easily at all, obviously his experience's have been all ass about aswell, sorry again.



and that was a silly analagy about the water puddle, we WERE talking about adding a 2 stroke oil into the intake until the motor dies, this WILL NOT hydrolock it or do any damage at all..........



I've stalled out my motor before from injecting too much water into it, from a very poorly setup water injetion setup, and that didn't hydrolock my engine either, maybe its a freak rotary.



You must've had some different experieces with injecting liquids into a rotary?













PS- I don't think im more experienced at all mate, I actually don't know very much about anything to do with cars, I was talking about it in the sense of it was an experience I HAD.....

Im beyond the point of caring! Go dump a quart of 2 cycle in your intake, blame fisheyes on armor all.

I



DONT



CARE

https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/violin.gif



I offer my oppinion, and thats it. I dont feel the need to validate myself to anyone. Take my advice or dont i dont care.



I just try to help people because i know how it feels to need help and not have it!



THE END

I have a question for you. Are you a member of the rx7club.com? I get that vibe from you. BTW, my comments have nothing to do with the fact that you're right or wrong.

ATF is utter crap to put into your engine. To unflood your engine, it's actually better to simply pour a little oil down the carb or into the plug holes. It won't foul plugs or cats nearly as badly as ATF, or even at all. I see absolutely no reason to ever use ATF on or in anything other than an automatic tranny. I mean c'mon, when you're gonna grab a bottle of something to deflood an engine, is it really all that hard to grab regular old Castrol GTX or whatever?



ATF will never touch the internals of any of my engines.



Armor all has been known to destroy dashes and other interior parts. I didn't know it can cause repainting troubles too. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/ohmy.png

although i didn't know that armorall messed up paint either, i was asking about the effects on dashes and what not, why does it destroy them?

I dont know if everyones impression of me is good or bad. If its bad vibe, then I apologize. But no I dont post in RX7Club. If you have ever been to ClubFC3S you will see me there.



I just come here to learn from people who know things that i dont. And to help people with problems that I have encountered and defeated.

j9fd3s recently had a dash that was juicing a clear liquid. It may have been caused by Armor all. I've heard stories of interior parts cracking and blistering etc from Armor all. It seems STP protectant doesn't cause those types of problems.

Put in a crate clearly marked 'Robbomaz, Perth, Western Australia'

It's warm here, and my Cosmo will keep it company



https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png

I have had this 'bleeding'with AA too.

And re fisheyes, AA contains sliicone of some sort I believe.

Silicone is a major cause of paint fish-eyes. Acetone based fluids like Prepsol remove it no problem. A lot of pro painters don't use it because it is expensive and with correct cleanliness practice and skills is unneccessary.

Paranoid backyard nongs that paint their own cars like me use about 400 litres of the stuff per respray https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...>/rolleyes.gif

Not sure if it still stands, but Armor All had some sort of advertisement campaign where if one was to use Armor All for the life of the part in a certain frequency, they would kind of "warranty" the part.



I could be mistaken but I believe Armor All is a water-based product. This would probably explain some of why it can hurt parts moreso than help them. Products like Black Magic's Tire Wet are silicone based I think.

RONIN, yes, I'm catching that vibe of "more experienced" from you.



I have seen the fish-eyes in paint first hand. I did not do the paint work on the truck, but I did mechanical service work on the truck and other trucks at the same shop.



I was there for the whole degreasing of the paint, cleaning, prepping, sanding, priming, painting, and the results showed a ton of fish-eyes. The original owner even mentioned that he (and his wife) both go nuts with the armor all when they clean the truck. They were unaware that it's bad for the paint.



Dan hasn't been in to paint anything yet lately so I haven't had a chance to ask about this Prep-All stuff you use. He's suppost to be in tomorrow to prime a crane, so I'll ask him then if I get a chance.



Back to the topic of storing a rotary, I my original idea of dumping 2 stroke into the intake was just from other owners who said that's what they do when they store for winter. However I was unsure of how good an idea that was, but it seemed fesable. With the car sitting for 5-6 months, the 2 stroke would seep down into the motor, the same way it would if you flooded it with fuel, right? Even if it (somehow) hydraulically locked from 2 stroke even after sitting for months on end, it takes all of 10 minutes to remove the lead plugs and spin the starter, right? No big deal. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/happy.png I was more concerned about the validity of 2-stroke into the motor at all. Do I really need the extra lubrication? You guys are the experts. I was concerned about things like an apex seal spring sticking and loosing compression on a few faces from it drying out. But I don't know if it would even do it at all! I'm not too familiar with how I should go about it. I guess I started this thread basically out of paranoia. You guys know more about rotary storage than I do, so I thought I should ask.



Anyways thanks for your responses guys and some, if not all, of my questions have been answered. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/happy.png



Edit: Perhaps I should use 4-stroke 20w50 for storing instead, as Jeff suggested rather than ATF for use on internals? The only reason I thought of the 2 stroke was it was suggested by other owners, and it burns much cleaner after the initial startup after sitting for such a lengthy time. But if 4-stroke lubricates better, then perhaps I should go with that? ATF is more of a de-carbon trick, not lubrication. But Jeff's suggestion made me think of using 4-stroke instead of 2-stroke.

Also I noticed I said I am converting to premix because IMO 4-stroke does not belong in the combustion chamber..



I would like to add to that statement by saying it does not belong in there on a regular basis the way the MOP regulates it, after seeing the carbon buildup on another torn apart 13B. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/wink.png

Wow, a ton of fish eyes! LOL, Your boy thats been painting for 20 yrs sanded the armor all right into the paint!

Im sorry if you feel that I think im "more experienced" but when someone tells me they "once saw someone paint" and now their arguing with me about paint, it just makes me laugh. Sorry, in your case I am more experienced.



And ya know, i hate to come off like that. But i was forced into it.



Like I said before you wanna pour fluid into a running engine, go head. I dont care, but it aint on my concience. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683827.gif

Now this i believe!

Yah, now that I have blown apart my intermediate housing I will ALWAYS drain the coolant from my engine before storing it since I live in Minnesota. It is up to you but this is what happened to my inter-housing from frozen water:

http://www.rx7turbo.com/projectcosmo/cntrhousingbad.jpg



p.s. Wasn't this a post about storing your car?*points to painting threads*

Well we will see how it turns out. Plans changed from my original thought.



I have 2 stroke in the housings that I spin around by hand every week or so. I don't add more i just get it moving around. The rotors haven't locked or haven't been tough to spin by hand on the main pulley, and with the exhaust manifold off everything inside was nicely lubricated (to the extent of what you can see through the exhaust ports).



There is some antifreeze in the motor. Not alot but there is some sitting in there.



I plan on flushing the system once it's together and running.



I ended up pulling my motor and painting my engine bay with aircraft paint, as opposed to leaving the motor in and painting around the motor.



In about a month, month and a half, we will see how well it turns out.

Just to add I had alot of success with this..





Just two stroke in the chamber and spin it around..



Sat for almost over a year before firing it up, and it started first try, no problems, excellent compression.