My Thoughts On Todays Usgp
06-19-2005 | 10:52 PM
#1
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 983
From: redondo beach
trying to be as unbaised as possible when writing this, although it was written in opposition to all of the flak ferrari has received for the race today.
The Michelin teams could have used the other compound, although they would have been punished, but nothing as severe as a black flag. The teams could have run through the pitlane instead of the final turn. The teams could have agreed on a set speed in the turn, and agree not to overtake anyone going into or out of it. OR the drivers could have changed tires every couple of laps. Although none of the cars using these stratagies could have been competetive against the Bridgestone runners, it still would have been a much more eventful race then just retiring after the formation lap. As for Ferrari not drawing out of the race, or allowing for a chicane, think about it like this: this whole season they have had to deal with an inferior tire, then at one race when they do actually have the superior tire they are chastised for not pulling out, or allowing a chicane and giving the advantage back to the Michelin teams.
Heres an analogy about this: your basketball team has been second rate all season, and during one game the other team's (which happens to be completely dominant this year) best and most dominant player in the league injures himself, by his own fault your team has nothing to do with the incident. Now do you either take out your best player to be more sportsmanlike or do you capitalise on their loss, and ultimately beating them to the ground, or do you take out your best player knowing that if he was out you would definately lose?
From the other teams point of view: Your best player has injured himself, and if you put him back in the game he might kill himself (similar to a left rear tire blowing out whilst going full speed). So doing that is clearly out of the question, but you are left with two choices on how to proceed: You can either continue to play and minimise your loss since it is quaranteed without your best player, OR you could just cancel the game and accept defeat and not give a damn about what the fans who paid to see a basketball game.
Granted this analogy doesnt fit 100%, but for the most part it works given the situations.
Now with the basketball situation everyone involved would be extremely pissed, including the better teams fans if they just pulled out and said they were no longer going to compete in it. And yet a similar situation has transpired today and fans of the better team (the fans of those who use Michelin rubber) are angry at the worse team (the teams using Bridgestone rubber) for not getting rid of their advantage.
But the fact of the matter is that some teams came to this event prepared, while others were not prepared. And while the teams that werent prepared decided to back out of the race, even though they had a couple ways to stay and compete, they withdrew from the race altogether. Now the team that was worse off for the entire season finally had an advantage over their competition and they have been labeled many bad things for their decision. In my opinnion the Michelin teams drawing out of the race is far worse than Ferrari not wanting to give up its advantage. In other forms of sports, one team is never ready to just hand over its advantage, or offer the teams with things to compensate for them having the disadvantage. And yet here in Formula one, when Ferrari is concerned it is deemed unsportsmanlike.
The Michelin teams could have used the other compound, although they would have been punished, but nothing as severe as a black flag. The teams could have run through the pitlane instead of the final turn. The teams could have agreed on a set speed in the turn, and agree not to overtake anyone going into or out of it. OR the drivers could have changed tires every couple of laps. Although none of the cars using these stratagies could have been competetive against the Bridgestone runners, it still would have been a much more eventful race then just retiring after the formation lap. As for Ferrari not drawing out of the race, or allowing for a chicane, think about it like this: this whole season they have had to deal with an inferior tire, then at one race when they do actually have the superior tire they are chastised for not pulling out, or allowing a chicane and giving the advantage back to the Michelin teams.
Heres an analogy about this: your basketball team has been second rate all season, and during one game the other team's (which happens to be completely dominant this year) best and most dominant player in the league injures himself, by his own fault your team has nothing to do with the incident. Now do you either take out your best player to be more sportsmanlike or do you capitalise on their loss, and ultimately beating them to the ground, or do you take out your best player knowing that if he was out you would definately lose?
From the other teams point of view: Your best player has injured himself, and if you put him back in the game he might kill himself (similar to a left rear tire blowing out whilst going full speed). So doing that is clearly out of the question, but you are left with two choices on how to proceed: You can either continue to play and minimise your loss since it is quaranteed without your best player, OR you could just cancel the game and accept defeat and not give a damn about what the fans who paid to see a basketball game.
Granted this analogy doesnt fit 100%, but for the most part it works given the situations.
Now with the basketball situation everyone involved would be extremely pissed, including the better teams fans if they just pulled out and said they were no longer going to compete in it. And yet a similar situation has transpired today and fans of the better team (the fans of those who use Michelin rubber) are angry at the worse team (the teams using Bridgestone rubber) for not getting rid of their advantage.
But the fact of the matter is that some teams came to this event prepared, while others were not prepared. And while the teams that werent prepared decided to back out of the race, even though they had a couple ways to stay and compete, they withdrew from the race altogether. Now the team that was worse off for the entire season finally had an advantage over their competition and they have been labeled many bad things for their decision. In my opinnion the Michelin teams drawing out of the race is far worse than Ferrari not wanting to give up its advantage. In other forms of sports, one team is never ready to just hand over its advantage, or offer the teams with things to compensate for them having the disadvantage. And yet here in Formula one, when Ferrari is concerned it is deemed unsportsmanlike.
06-20-2005 | 12:13 AM
#2
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: redondo beach
couple other points i realized when traveling between houses tonight.
Michelin was ready to race with the chicane and make it a non sanctioned event, but when asked to simply avoid the turn and continue the race while being FIA sanctioned and have 3 points on the line, they absolutely refused. They said it was about giving the fans a race, but they could have given the fans a race while still obeying the rules.
And maybe situations like these are why the FIA favors Ferrari, since in times like these they were the only ones who were willing to respect the FIA and what it stands for.
Michelin was ready to race with the chicane and make it a non sanctioned event, but when asked to simply avoid the turn and continue the race while being FIA sanctioned and have 3 points on the line, they absolutely refused. They said it was about giving the fans a race, but they could have given the fans a race while still obeying the rules.
And maybe situations like these are why the FIA favors Ferrari, since in times like these they were the only ones who were willing to respect the FIA and what it stands for.
06-20-2005 | 12:50 PM
#3
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,483
From: Fayetteville, Georgia
I think it's pretty ridiculous if people blame Ferrari for the events leading up to the race. The fact that all the Michelin teams went out on the grid and then straight to the pits after the warm up lap has to be one of the highest displays of unsportsmanlike conduct I've witnessed in a major sport. I mean, cmon!
Now I know the drivers conveyed they didn't have a lot of pull in the decision, but I seriously could not do what they did after the warm up lap.
Ferrari was prepared and I applaud them for taking what they can get. They HAVE had inferior tires the entire season, and did they back out of races because they knew they couldn't WIN?
And who's to say a Michelin driver wouldn't have won the race? Toyota was the only team with problems. Obviously it was a combination of tire pressure and chassis that contributed to the overloading of the tire. That's too bad that their chassis/tire pressure combination was flawed, but it's not everyone else's problem for their poor planning.
Summary: **** the Michelin teams, yay for Ferrari and Jordan and Bridgestone for designing a tire that can compete in any condition.
Now I know the drivers conveyed they didn't have a lot of pull in the decision, but I seriously could not do what they did after the warm up lap.
Ferrari was prepared and I applaud them for taking what they can get. They HAVE had inferior tires the entire season, and did they back out of races because they knew they couldn't WIN?
And who's to say a Michelin driver wouldn't have won the race? Toyota was the only team with problems. Obviously it was a combination of tire pressure and chassis that contributed to the overloading of the tire. That's too bad that their chassis/tire pressure combination was flawed, but it's not everyone else's problem for their poor planning.
Summary: **** the Michelin teams, yay for Ferrari and Jordan and Bridgestone for designing a tire that can compete in any condition.
06-20-2005 | 01:34 PM
#5
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,483
From: Fayetteville, Georgia
[quote name='Baldy' date='Jun 20 2005, 01:25 PM']Is there a summary/explanation somewhere that explains what happened?
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06-20-2005 | 08:29 PM
#6
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 947
From: Bayou-self Louisiana
I blame Micheline before knowing the rules...They been racing there for the last few years.
Excerpts from:http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3209/740.html
""Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.
The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.
They owe the public and need to take their medicine for not making a product that can compete with Brigdestone.
Excerpts from:http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3209/740.html
""Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.
The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.
They owe the public and need to take their medicine for not making a product that can compete with Brigdestone.
06-21-2005 | 04:57 AM
#7
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 907
From: Ireland
Michelin don't owe the public anything, they're not in any contract with them are they? They make tyres, and pretty good ones - they've certainly been more competetive over the course of the year than Bridgestone so I don't know what you mean by your comment. If you want someone to blame, blame Bernie and the FIA for making one set of tyres have to last the whole race which is a completely rediculous idea - the tyres were barely ably to stand up to x amount of laps between pitstops before all this.
Mark
Mark
06-21-2005 | 06:08 AM
#8
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 947
From: Bayou-self Louisiana
They new the conditions that their tires were expected to face before the event ever started. They had been there for years before.They didnt have to wait until that morning or even the night before to make a stand. I am sure all the fans that have spent a few thousand didnt care that Michelin couldnt give a heads up to the FIA last month, a year ago, the year before.And using one set of tires...thats been in the rules and that was not a last minute curveball. I do agree that they should go to slicks again and they should be able to change tires. Michelin new the rules before hand...dont wine cause you cant play. Everything else is excuses and nothing but.
06-21-2005 | 06:32 AM
#9
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 947
From: Bayou-self Louisiana
Damn I got timed out on my corrections. 
IMO, I understand and appreciate Mark's opinion.
However Michelin should not have agreed to run this year at all if there was to be a tire that couldn’t make all the races. The rules were in place, the destinations and the track layouts were in place at the end of last year. Michelin should have filed a petition and or protest prior to the event. If they would have done so the people that flew in or drove for days could have made other plans and the FIA could've have changed the layout or passed on the USGP. Now the FIA is probably going to go to one with manufacturer...which is B.S.
Correct my spelling on the last post while reading.
IMO, I understand and appreciate Mark's opinion.
However Michelin should not have agreed to run this year at all if there was to be a tire that couldn’t make all the races. The rules were in place, the destinations and the track layouts were in place at the end of last year. Michelin should have filed a petition and or protest prior to the event. If they would have done so the people that flew in or drove for days could have made other plans and the FIA could've have changed the layout or passed on the USGP. Now the FIA is probably going to go to one with manufacturer...which is B.S.
Correct my spelling on the last post while reading.
06-21-2005 | 09:29 AM
#10
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,483
From: Fayetteville, Georgia
Teams will be penalized
Originally Posted by TFA
The teams - Renault, BAR-Honda, Toyota, McLaren, Sauber, BMW-Williams and Red Bull Racing - will get the chance to submit written explanations to the FIA prior to the meeting.
The teams face sanctions ranging from fines to lost points to possibly having to compensate Formula One and/or the U.S. Grand Prix, something FIA president Max Mosley would not oppose.
The teams face sanctions ranging from fines to lost points to possibly having to compensate Formula One and/or the U.S. Grand Prix, something FIA president Max Mosley would not oppose.
