Drift Is Growing!
06-08-2003, 11:18 PM
#21
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,547
Originally Posted by Ranzo' date='Jun 8 2003, 09:43 PM
What is the point or benefit of any motorsport???
The manufacturers of parts and such use the experiences at the track to develop new and better stuff for the everyday person.
The manufacturers of parts and such use the experiences at the track to develop new and better stuff for the everyday person.
We use motorsport technology on the street (to some degree) to keep us safer. Motorsport driving simulates street driving, drifting doesn't simulate ****. We DO NOT drift on the street, let me correct myself please, we SHOULD NOT BE drifting on the street.
My point is this: People (like me) enjoy things that are usable and accesible to us. I watch Formula 1, NASCAR(rarely), WRC etc. etc. because it involves driving that I perform (to some degree LOL) when autoXing. Drifting doesn't accomodate anything else besides, well, drifting. Sure I like to watch it, but it doesn't tickle my fancy (to put it bluntly) like REAL and BENEFICIAL motorsports do!!!
06-09-2003, 12:51 PM
#22
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Okinawa, Japan
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So somebody that lives and drives in Chicago has never EVER had the back end of their car get loose during winter? I call BS. 
Hell, I grew up in Park Ridge which is practically Chicago (geographically speaking) and the winters there sucked. Cold asphalt packed with snow most of the time. Not the best surface for traction. Later I moved down to Springfield but the winters aren't as cold. But that town is one of the crappiest towns in the world so avoid it all costs if possible.
If you get good at drifting, you will get better at driving at autoX and circuit driving. Need an explanation why? Doing it is far better than reading about it. But it you are used to controling a car beyong the limits, then the limits of a car will be farther out there compared to somebody that never goes beyond that point. There is no perfect line around a track. Not when there are other cars and and any possible debris that was thrown on the trck by another car leaving them getting back on course. Dirt and gravel are examples. Maybe even oil. If drifting is foreign to you, then you will not win. Real racecar drivers have many skills at hand. They might not call it drifting, but they do it to some degree when they need to.
To not believe that drifting can help you in road racing is sheer ignorance. Please read this following passage and guess who wrote it. -
"At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him. His rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections." The writer honestly admits that he soon became used to this exercise, because he saw Nuvolari do it countless times. "But each time I seemed to be climbing into a roller coaster and finding myself coming through the downhill run with that sort of dazed feeling that we all know."
Just who is this mytery writer that speaks of this thing called drifting? None other than Enzo Ferrari. But I guess that he didn't know that drifting was the slowest way around a track.
Need another reason to do it? It's the most fun you can have in your car while staying PG rated.
If you get good at drifting, you will get better at driving at autoX and circuit driving. Need an explanation why? Doing it is far better than reading about it. But it you are used to controling a car beyong the limits, then the limits of a car will be farther out there compared to somebody that never goes beyond that point. There is no perfect line around a track. Not when there are other cars and and any possible debris that was thrown on the trck by another car leaving them getting back on course. Dirt and gravel are examples. Maybe even oil. If drifting is foreign to you, then you will not win. Real racecar drivers have many skills at hand. They might not call it drifting, but they do it to some degree when they need to.
To not believe that drifting can help you in road racing is sheer ignorance. Please read this following passage and guess who wrote it. -
"At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him. His rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections." The writer honestly admits that he soon became used to this exercise, because he saw Nuvolari do it countless times. "But each time I seemed to be climbing into a roller coaster and finding myself coming through the downhill run with that sort of dazed feeling that we all know."
Just who is this mytery writer that speaks of this thing called drifting? None other than Enzo Ferrari. But I guess that he didn't know that drifting was the slowest way around a track.
Need another reason to do it? It's the most fun you can have in your car while staying PG rated.
06-09-2003, 01:32 PM
#23
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,547
Originally Posted by Jerk_Racer' date='Jun 9 2003, 12:51 PM
So somebody that lives and drives in Chicago has never EVER had the back end of their car get loose during winter? I call BS.
Need another reason to do it? It's the most fun you can have in your car while staying PG rated.
Need another reason to do it? It's the most fun you can have in your car while staying PG rated.
Oh yeah I forget, there are frequent oil spils and slicks which I'd have to drift around on the street to avoid, therewith saving my life, car, and occupants with whom I'm traveling with.
Get it right, if you plan on discrediting me and my experiance of racing and autoXing, then do it in a manner which wouldn't require you to call me ignorant.
After all, I never called drifters ignorant or stupid.
06-09-2003, 07:44 PM
#24
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Memphis, Japan
Posts: 427
IT IS FUN, I'd like to get into it too, but it doesn't account for ****. How the hell can drifting help me out on the street?
Oh yeah I forget, there are frequent oil spils and slicks which I'd have to drift around on the street to avoid, therewith saving my life, car, and occupants with whom I'm traveling with.
Oh yeah I forget, there are frequent oil spils and slicks which I'd have to drift around on the street to avoid, therewith saving my life, car, and occupants with whom I'm traveling with.
HMMMMM YOU just answered YOUR own question. As for my other post........I was answering your question.......with a question because all motorsports are doing the same thing. If you think that Drift dosen't add to things like "real racing" then you would be mistaken. Drift has led to the development of lots of parts that were not available before it got big.
If you would actually drift on a track then you would see the advantages you can have by possesing those skills. As I have said many times before if you can drift well then you can race well the same cannot be said for the opposite. As for autocross........I invite you to drive in my autocrosses without some drifting skills........you will loose. SCCA and the like in the States is overexagerated street driving the courses are wide and open but if you do a gymkhana course or something with some thought into it you will need more than just a good line to be competitive.
Just being nice and saying that drift looks cool and blah blah blah is fine but the bottom line is that you are saying that it does not deserve a place in motorsports. That is the issue here and it is obvious that you oppose drift as a valid motorsport. Also calling you ignorant I think is appropriate due to the fact that ignorance is just not knowing.....you can eduacate yourself about things and prevent ignorance. Nobody said you were stupid or dumb.......that would be uncalled for but ignorant.....yes. We are all ignorant about some things in the world.
06-09-2003, 08:12 PM
#26
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Okinawa, Japan
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Sorry. I didn't mean it to seem like I was calling you anything. I just thought that you were not sure of what it had to do with motorsports and what benefits that it offered. Your posts at first didn't specify what it can offer in everyday driving on the streets.
Just checking on your level of wintertime driving expertise. I turned 16 in the summertime but didn't get a car until I could afford one from my $3.80/hr (what minimum wage was when I was in high school wayyyyyy back when all you whipper snappers ) job until November. It was a groovy '79 Dodge Aspen SE (big pimpin' with seating for 6 people or even 8 very close friends). Crappy suspension, crappy handling, RWD w/autotragic tranny, and next to no weight in the back in spite of it's 4,000+ pound curb weight meant I learned real quickly how to drive on the slick stuff. It topped out at about 85mph with a 0-60 that might have matched a VW bus. What a turd that thing was. I didn't know it was "drifting" (as pathetic as my first attempts were) but I loved to hang it around corners more than anything else. With that car I learned to get sliding well before the corner otherwise if I started mid-corner I'd either spin out or tag a curb. It was a nice car to beat up on as it was a tank.
So what exactly can it do for you on the streets? Keep you safe. Most people that don't know how to handle a slide will turn into the skid as they learned in drivers ed. But then the car usually snaps back when they get off the gas abruptly and they wind up spinning after a few quick fishtails (or tankslappers for you biker guys). With experience sliding will let you take care of the problem before it becomes a problem. People make mistakes all the time when conditions are crummy. That's life. But to get out of a jam instead of crashing is the best. Most people that slide off the road are usually driving too fast for conditions. But if they knew how to slide their cars in a controlled manner, chances are they'd be more in tune with the road conditions and take it easier.
Or how about "road hazards"? SUV's might not have problems with road construction that leaves manholes sticking up about 4" or so and those crazy thick steel plates or sudden 3" dropoffs where the old pavement has been scraped up, but my car does. Seattle has a lot of crummy roads and contruction everywhere that favors the hordes of SUV's that crowd the roads around here. I only have 225/50/16's on my car, but some of these road hazards would mess up my wheels bigtime not to mention what they'd do to my oilpan if I caught on something. My car is leveled at 25" at the top of each fender so it's not as though it's lowered much. Some dudes must have a helluva time with their lowered cars with rubberband tires on those 18's of theirs. With my car I quite often have to use high speed evasive manuevers. So far I've been lucky where I haven't lost traction trying to avoid any of these hazards but I know it's only a matter of time.
It's just that it does have it's applications on the track as well as the road. More on the track than the streets, but they are out there. I'm near Seattle now. The roads seem to be wet and slimy from constant light drixzzles and moss that grows everywhere from November to May. Many times you'll be sliding without warning and if you can't catch it to control it you will slide off the road. Especially on all the twisty roads around here. Those are everywhere as we are in between two mountain ranges and laods of foothills and plateaus. Most people either crash into ditches or learn how to drive. Seattle has some of the worst drivers I've ever seen in the world so the junkyards are always freshly stocked. But there are many chances around here to get practical real world experience. Calling it drifting might be a bit much, but advanced skid control is another way of putting it. Either way, knowing what to do during a slide pays off when you need to know it.
Just checking on your level of wintertime driving expertise. I turned 16 in the summertime but didn't get a car until I could afford one from my $3.80/hr (what minimum wage was when I was in high school wayyyyyy back when all you whipper snappers
So what exactly can it do for you on the streets? Keep you safe. Most people that don't know how to handle a slide will turn into the skid as they learned in drivers ed. But then the car usually snaps back when they get off the gas abruptly and they wind up spinning after a few quick fishtails (or tankslappers for you biker guys). With experience sliding will let you take care of the problem before it becomes a problem. People make mistakes all the time when conditions are crummy. That's life. But to get out of a jam instead of crashing is the best. Most people that slide off the road are usually driving too fast for conditions. But if they knew how to slide their cars in a controlled manner, chances are they'd be more in tune with the road conditions and take it easier.
Or how about "road hazards"? SUV's might not have problems with road construction that leaves manholes sticking up about 4" or so and those crazy thick steel plates or sudden 3" dropoffs where the old pavement has been scraped up, but my car does. Seattle has a lot of crummy roads and contruction everywhere that favors the hordes of SUV's that crowd the roads around here. I only have 225/50/16's on my car, but some of these road hazards would mess up my wheels bigtime not to mention what they'd do to my oilpan if I caught on something. My car is leveled at 25" at the top of each fender so it's not as though it's lowered much. Some dudes must have a helluva time with their lowered cars with rubberband tires on those 18's of theirs. With my car I quite often have to use high speed evasive manuevers. So far I've been lucky where I haven't lost traction trying to avoid any of these hazards but I know it's only a matter of time.
It's just that it does have it's applications on the track as well as the road. More on the track than the streets, but they are out there. I'm near Seattle now. The roads seem to be wet and slimy from constant light drixzzles and moss that grows everywhere from November to May. Many times you'll be sliding without warning and if you can't catch it to control it you will slide off the road. Especially on all the twisty roads around here. Those are everywhere as we are in between two mountain ranges and laods of foothills and plateaus. Most people either crash into ditches or learn how to drive. Seattle has some of the worst drivers I've ever seen in the world so the junkyards are always freshly stocked.
06-09-2003, 09:32 PM
#27
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,547
Alright fellas, you WIN, for a few reasons.
ONE: I was going to try drifting when I get a hold of a car again, therefore, I'm not going to continue this since it'll seem like I was contradicting myself.
TWO: If this goes on, Jerk Racer's posts will become increasingly larger, on that account, I'll get pissed from reading it all and then I'll snap and start breaking things. (Breaking things is never good)
THREE: Since I'm as ignorant as can be according to Ronzo's beautifully put comparrison between ignorence and lack of knowledge, I'll just take my ignorant *** to the cleaners and forget the SCCA ever existed and catered to ignorant ROOKIE ******** like yours truly.
Good night gentlemen, no harm no foul done!!!
ONE: I was going to try drifting when I get a hold of a car again, therefore, I'm not going to continue this since it'll seem like I was contradicting myself.
TWO: If this goes on, Jerk Racer's posts will become increasingly larger, on that account, I'll get pissed from reading it all and then I'll snap and start breaking things. (Breaking things is never good)
THREE: Since I'm as ignorant as can be according to Ronzo's beautifully put comparrison between ignorence and lack of knowledge, I'll just take my ignorant *** to the cleaners and forget the SCCA ever existed and catered to ignorant ROOKIE ******** like yours truly.
Good night gentlemen, no harm no foul done!!!
06-09-2003, 10:33 PM
#28
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Memphis, Japan
Posts: 427
Srce94fd....... damn you are one cool mother------ I was hoping you took what was said in the right light. You got my vote man. I have noticed alot of people hating on drift and I happen to love it. Even if it dosen't contribute anything to the world it is still a helluva good time.
Peace!!!
Peace!!!
06-09-2003, 10:45 PM
#29
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,547
Originally Posted by Ranzo' date='Jun 9 2003, 10:33 PM
Srce94fd....... damn you are one cool mother------ I was hoping you took what was said in the right light. You got my vote man. I have noticed alot of people hating on drift and I happen to love it. Even if it dosen't contribute anything to the world it is still a helluva good time.
Peace!!!
Peace!!!
06-09-2003, 11:15 PM
#30
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 1,679
SCCA = political hogshit, been there left that
Drifting "competetions" (DGTA)= ******* around in a parking lot, it got old fast (for me) and it wears part out VERY quick. The other hand is that it keeps people from doing it on the street and killing innocent bystanders, and it keeps the shops in business
gymkana = the british term for autocross
My .2 cents, i didnt even read the whole thread, i just saw the SCCA/ drifting reference, and got realy pissed off that the SCCA would try to ruin a fun thing like drifting, as they did with autocross.
**** the SCCA
Drifting "competetions" (DGTA)= ******* around in a parking lot, it got old fast (for me) and it wears part out VERY quick. The other hand is that it keeps people from doing it on the street and killing innocent bystanders, and it keeps the shops in business
gymkana = the british term for autocross
My .2 cents, i didnt even read the whole thread, i just saw the SCCA/ drifting reference, and got realy pissed off that the SCCA would try to ruin a fun thing like drifting, as they did with autocross.
**** the SCCA