What is the right way to mount a 4 or 5 point harness in an FC with no roll cage? I read you shouldn't mount the shoulder straps to the hatch floor because in an accident it will pull down on your shoulders risking injury. Can you wrap them around the rear strut tower bar?

bump, anyone?

i guess if someone knew they could help you,

I think its mostly done to a roll bar, I guess

you could do it to the strut bar though, im sure its

not the absolute best way to do it, but what are the chances

of the strut bar ripping out in a accident

Mounting to a regular run of the mill strut tower bar is a bad idea. Most are not made to take the abuse of an accident... However I ran across a company (can't remember who) who made a rear bar that was quite thick, and they advertised it as a safe mounting point for a 4 point. Keep in mind it was probably 3 times more metal then I've seen on most rear strut bars. If you made one it wouldn't be too expensive. Depending on how much you trust yourself or someone else with your life https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...R#>/unsure.png . From that company you might as well pitch in the extra cash for a good cage.

So you are saying basically forget it unless I get a cage? I only want the harness for autocrossing. The stock seat belt sucks (and the seats) for this. I'm not doing it for safety and wouldn't use it for anything but this. I wonder if I were to get a seat too like a Sparco Sprint or something basic, if that would provide more support for the shoulder straps than the stocker. I'd like to keep both the stock belt and the harness installed at the same time if possible.

If you're only autocrossing, the strut tower bar is fine.



Get a clip-in style harness, it comes with eye-bolts that can replace the stock seatbelt mounting hardware, under the carpet where your belt attaches to the floor. Replace one of the seat bolts, or the seat belt reciever strap bolt for the inside. then the harness will clip in and outand you can just toss it in the trunk when you're not using it.



Remember, the angle of the straps are very important. You want the shoulder straps to be -10 degrees or less, and the lap straps to be as close to straight down as possible.



It WILL deform if you use it on the street and get into a wreck. It probably won't break, but it will give enough to let your body hit the windshield, steering wheel, dash, etc.

for autocrossing im sure he knows not to bolt it to some

shitty strut bar.

Well, I have the Corksport strut bar in the back. I don't think its shitty but its no Cusco. The thing is, the courses we run at are very wide open, the chance of a collision is really small but you never know.



I don't know what to do now. The only guy I saw so far autocrossing an FC with a harness had his bolted right to the hatch floor. I'm thinking thats too steep of an angle but maybe not if I bolt it down far back enough.

just keep in mind that strut tower bars are not generally designed to experience side loads like you would be applying with the straps mounted onto them.



example: take a straw, try stretching and compressing it's long axis, without applying any other loads... it works ok.



now do the same with someone else poking and pulling at the center of the straw along an axis perpendicular to the one you are compressing and stretching on. what happens to the straw?



yep, thats what your straps will be doing when they are restraining you.





note, for the example above you will have to keep the loads low enough to not destroy the straw when simply stretching & compressing it, just observe how much less compressive and tensile load it can take when yer freind is poking & prodding lightly even.



I'd put a cage in the car or at least just weld in a bar that is beefy enough for this going across the car, most strut tower bars are relatively narrow.

just use the stock belts or get a roll bar, roll bars

arent THAT much money.



otherwise bolting it to the strut bar

it would be more for bling bling, which I thought

was what you were going for anyhow.

Thanks guys. No, I'm not going for the rice effect Rob. I have a hard time staying planted in my seat during autocross which makes it harder to stay focused on steering and shifting when your body is moving around. By the end of each run, my ass is planted on the door. I read at TeamFC3S and FC3S.org about the Autopower race roll bar. It looks good and is legal for SCCA and many other organizations even for some road racing. It has the optional harness mount bar. Based on everything I read, if I want to do this, I should do it right and get the Autopower or a cage. The Autopower is $350 for the FC and they build it custom for our car.

Here's a link to the pic of this guys interior (from TeamFC3S) with the Autopower race roll bar and harness mount:



25BP

I'd suggest putting in a rollbar/cage before considering harnesses. Seatbelts are designed to allow you fall forward enough to save your head in case of a roll over where the roof caves in. If you were in a harness you'd be stuck upright with your head only inches from the roof. If the roof were to collapse in a case of a roll over you'd experience severe head trauma and spinal compression. doesn't sound like fun does it? https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

I agree, if I do this I'm going to do it the right way.

it's only your life right https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...#>/biggrin.png

it sounds like you have most trouble with lateral movement in your seat, perhaps simply swapping out the stock seats for some lightweight race seats with more side bolstering will prove sufficient?

I think you got a slow responce since there is a thread about 10 threads down that talks about it.



Get some piping thats even stronger then the strut bar (since its holding your life) and fix it up for yourself or have a shop do it with some harness points

Right, thats the main issue but I don't think most of them are designed to work with stock belts. I mean the stock belt would go over top of the seat sides instead of through the holes that they put in them for harnesses. You never know, I could still roll the car autocrossing. Some of these lots are pretty bumpy. I could see myself fishtailing and rolling it. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/ohmy.png



I think best bet is to get a seat and a harness and use just the lap belt until I have money for a good rollbar. Actually that doesnt make any ****** sense either because on the street I'd be screwed in a front end collision with no shoulder belt. https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...1047683561.gif

Here is the seat I am thinking about

Look, he doesn't need all that crap if he's solo autocrossing.

If you're ONLY using it for the autocrossing, and to prevent lateral movement by compressing yourself into the seat, then you've got the right idea with the strut bar. Chances are you'll never see loads high enough to even flex the bar, let alone bend it. Don't believe me? Go try to bend that brace. The stock FD one I could bend in half with my bare hands - that was a bad idea to mount any harnesses to.. But most solid aluminum ones should be PLENTY stout for autocrossing.



I don't understand why you guys think this is so dangerous?

sinful7, I was looking at the bar you made and I think I could do something similar with mine. This is for autox only. It may sound ridiculous but if there was a way, I'd use both a 4 point harness and then the stock belt over that for safety. I read of an MR2 set up that way with no cage, bar, or anything special. I like the seat idea though and the one I'm looking at is only $230.

I don't htink that seat would be very comfortable. it looks like it's a frame seat and not a modled one. I sat in a corbeau that was similar looking as that and it definatly wasn't very comfy.. but i guess it fixed the lateral movement issues https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

I'm on the fact that in case of a roll over while wearin ga harness chances of being injured are greater. If the roof of the car crushes, the person has no where to go as the seat belts have enough 'give' to help keep you from getting a head trauma/spinal compression due to your head to roof contact. With a harness you're locked in the upright position through the ordeal where chances are great of such injuries occuring if such an accident were to occur on the track or off.



Despite harnesses not being the most practical thing to put on and remove, once you would wear them in your normal sloshy seat and feel how much better you have control of yoru car as you're never fighting over lateral movements while driving you'll want to wear them on & off the track hense the probabily of wearing such items while driving down a twisty road where you could be involved in an accident is greater.l



Look at the Rx-7 already.. we can't just throw an exhaust and downpipe on our cars and expect it to be over with.. you have to upgrade your fuel system start monitoring the engine more closely. Why should your safety be any different. You put a harness in yoru car you should get a roll bar.

Rollovers in themselves are a rare occurance. Considering that in a typical autocross you never leave second gear, I think your chances for a rollover type accident are slim to none. Also, considering that the driver understands that his safety will be diminished in a rollover with a harness and no bar, he *should* be more considerate of what beheviors and driving styles cause rollovers, and try to avoid them.



Has anyone here ever seen a rollover at a solo event?



Anyone that wants pointers on making a steel tube harness bar can just ask, I'll be happy to help out any way I can.

What I'd like to make is a steel harness bar like yours but that connects both the stock upper belt mounting locations (on the b pillars?). I don't think any other points would be high or strong enough. What do you think?

Post a pic of the FC's seat belt mount and rear strut tower points and of the general area, and I'll let you know what I think will be more suitable.

I have done 4 point harnesses in an S13 240, an FD and a Blazer (but never an FC), so I've got some experience with what works and what sucks!

Here's the only two hatch pics I have now. Like I said, I think the strut bar may be a bit low to mount the shoulder straps but what do I know.

here's the other, you should be able to see the seat belt mounting points

The strut tower brace is not too low. You want them mounting area to be less than 10 or 15 degrees below an imaginary plane extending rear from the top of your shoulders. The seat belt mounting points will be too far to the side to funcion properly, you will be pulled to one side when you tighten your harnesses.

If you're really concerned the angle will be too low, you could mount the harnesses to the rear of the trunk wall.. Just get 3-point, double-release harnesses, and they'll be long enough to reach.

point taken Sinful.



If you use your rear strut bar i guess look at the mounting hardware and make sure that you feel it's going to be a good secure item. Corksport items aren't known for being trashy that I know of so i'm guess it's a good quality item. so for auto-x go for it https://www.nopistons.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.png

Are those solid seatbacks? How do you plan on routing the shoulder straps?

That's the other problem... I was looking for the same seats with the removable headrests which came in the 86-87 FC's in the same color... or just an aftermarket seat all together like I posted.

A seat with an adjustable headrest will bind the harness straps together, and it might be really uncomfortable on the back of your neck. the FD has a hole in the seat back, which is just big enough to work, but not big enough to be comfortable. I would prefer a seat with seperate holes for the shoulder straps, then they stay seperated, which aides in their functionality. Also, then the shoulder straps will be coming through at a more correct angle to support your upper body. As it stands, me being 6'2", the FD's hole is a little low, so the straps go up over my shoulder, but then down under the headrest. Not the best setup, but it works.

How I mounted mine (used just for AutoX, whatta pain to put them on each time for street driving). They hold you well in the corbeaus...without them during a run you roll into the seat excessively and come out bruised/sore. I ran them into the hatch and used some of the mounting hardware included w/ the corbeau harnesses and some stuff I had. I used STOCK bolt holes in the hatch that would be much stronger than anything you could drill back there...these are deep strong mounting points. I also used a nicer washer to seperate the 2 straps per harness to prevent them from binding/buckling. Then just slid it under the carpet



Under the carpet

http://www.rx7club.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=1791667





Above the carpet, not taught since nobody is strapped in hehe

http://www.rx7club.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=2714446



Again, this is just for the AutoX - harnesses are a pain for the street and unsafe...in the AutoX you take other cars hitting you OUT of the equation and you need to be held in place. On the street, if something happened, the stock seat belts are safer to me since they allow your body to move in a crash rather than staying in place and having the car crush over you etc...

I cant view the attachments at rx7club... can you email me pics?



Thanks, I appreciate it.

try this...

another...above carpet

notice those two large bolts in the first pic...that is where the harness mount I simply ran the harnesses under the carpet after the initial installation for a cleaner look.

Where did you mount them in the front? How do like the corbeau seats?

the front laps are mounted to stock locations using some of the corbeau hardware and some more washers/small spacers to keep things spaced out a tad so they won't bind at all. corbeau actually included nice hardware...it looks good, even the OEM caps fit over the mounting points and there is plenty of thread engagement to secure everything. the corbeau seats are a nice buy for the budget minded...they are comfy and really make you feel like you're a part of the car rather than something sitting on/in it. you stay in place and feel much more of the suspension working and tires reacting. these are forza II's I believe, the clubman is even cheaper and at a more reclined position, I like to sit more vertically. however, they are not made with the same quality as more $ seats like recaro or bride...the plastic harness holes are 2 piece and clip together and have come apart a couple of times from the pressure of the taught harness on them. they clip right back together and it happens every few months, but it can be annoying. the cloth is also cheap stuff but I've had them in for 2 years and about 15K and they still look brand new and feel great. the FC brackets are JUNK though. they are strong, but they just didn't fit very well so you have to play with them a bit...a little bit of trimming, a little bit of bending.